Tae Geuk Pal Jang (8)

[IcemanSK]

This question came up today.

On the last bar finishing. On the transition between the palm block & the double low block. (Movement #17 for those playing at home). I've always known it to be that the right foot steps forward. However, today I heard that the left foot steps back.

Several sources I've checked have the right foot stepping foward: like you're stepping up to block the technique. I've seen one source that says, the left foot moves.The left foot stepping back in the block, to me, is a retreat.

Has anyone else seen 2 different views of this? Is this new?

 

[Last Fearner]

Iceman,

The correct movement is with the front foot (right foot) turning clockwise, to the right. I have not seen any conflicting sources, but it would not surprise me if there were some.

The official source on the Taegeuk forms as authorized by the WTF, is laid out in a textbook called "Taekwondo (Poomse)." It was copyrighted in 1975 by the World Taekwondo Federation in Seoul, Korea and published by the Shin Jin Gak publishing agency. The preface is by Dr. Un Yong Kim.

Taegeuk Pal Jang:
movement #17

"With the left foot fixed, turn the body to the right and move the right foot to the line of "I". Oen-Dwitkoobi. Geodeureo Arae-Makki"

This is the way I was taught. Other texts that I have (including Sr. Grandmaster Sell's "Forces of Taekwondo) just show the pictures and describe the stances, but do not specify which foot moves. To move the left foot would not be consistent with the concept of the trigram design of the Taegeuk. When you step off center for both left and right lines (such as in moves 11-13, and 14-16, you should draw the front foot back to return to the center-line of the form as you proceed down to the base line.

I checked the DVD published by the USCDKA, and both Master Ron Sell, and Grandmaster Brenda do it the way I described, by moving the right foot.

If you have further questions on this one, e-mail me!

Perhaps others will still respond to your post here to give input as to what they have been taught or seen elsewhere.

CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[andyjeffries]

And the official source on the Taegeuk forms as authorized by the Kukkiwon, is laid out in a textbook called "Taekwondo Textbook". It was written in February 2006 by the Kukkiwon in Seoul, Korea and published by Kim, Joong-Young.

Taegeuk Pal Jang:
movement #18

"Na direction, right foot moved to turn, wen dwitkubi, kodureo araemakki"

I also checked the DVD published by the Kukkiwon (Kukki-Taekwondo Volume 1) and it also does it the way it's been described, right foot moves.

Anyway, thought you'd like a couple more of these authorative sources

 

[terryl965]

Well Last and ansy has said it all so I reallt onlt can confirm wgat theey have stated

 

[Miles]

This question came up today.

On the last bar finishing. On the transition between the palm block & the double low block. (Movement #17 for those playing at home). I've always known it to be that the right foot steps forward. However, today I heard that the left foot steps back.

The definitive source is as Andy J mentioned, the Kukkiwon Text (he has the most recent version-Feb 2006). If you moved the left foot back, wouldn't you end 1 step off? All the Taeguek pooomsae should begin and end at the same spot.

Miles

 

[IcemanSK]

The definitive source is as Andy J mentioned, the Kukkiwon Text (he has the most recent version-Feb 2006). If you moved the left foot back, wouldn't you end 1 step off? All the Taeguek pooomsae should begin and end at the same spot.

Miles

That was my point in my discussion w/ my friend. I've yet to see or hear any reference to my friend's thought. Perhaps he was mistaken.

 

[CaptLou]

As stated above, the left foot does not move back but is used as the axis as the body shifts to the right while moving the right foot. I've been TKD dormant for a while so for reference, I'm still using my 3 volume English/Korean bilingual Taekwondo Textbook published in 1986 that we used in Korea. I still also have my TKD (Poomse) textbook which was actually the 1st english version published by the KTA in 1975 also a good book but a little abbreviated, respectfully, lou

 

[Ninjamom]

I just re-checked with the video textbook produced by Dartfish. This is the DVD set commissioned by the WTF to serve as a standard for judging poomsae in the International Championships planned for next year. This source also has the right foot moving forward.

Honestly, this is the one form that I do not even come close to ending in the same spot I start. I am consistently several feet back and to the left. Anyone else have the same/similar thing happen?

 

[andyjeffries]

The definitive source is as Andy J mentioned, the Kukkiwon Text (he has the most recent version-Feb 2006). If you moved the left foot back, wouldn't you end 1 step off? All the Taeguek pooomsae should begin and end at the same spot.

I've just had that very debate on another forum, no they don't all end up on the same point, Taegeuk 1 ends up behind.

http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=15814

 

[IcemanSK]

Due to the overwhelming agreement (both here & my own searches) on the right leg moving rather than the left, I've emailed my buddy to check his source.

I'll letcha know what he says. Sorry for the hiccup.

 

[IcemanSK]

False Alarm!!!!!!
My friend went to look through his notes and the source that he claimed it was from. He was mistaken! He got that from an old instructor, not the current DVD he thought it was from. We all agree that movement #17 is the right foot moving into place.

You can now go about your normal day's training.:asian:

 

[Last Fearner]

You can now go about your normal day's training.:asian:

lol :lol:

 

[Miles]

I've just had that very debate on another forum, no they don't all end up on the same point, Taegeuk 1 ends up behind.

http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=15814

I must be doing something wrong as I am consistently landing in the right spot.

Miles

 

[Brad Dunne]

http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/information/information04_03_ex2.jsp?div=04

Hope this will be of some assistance................

 

[andyjeffries]

I must be doing something wrong as I am consistently landing in the right spot.

Miles

OK then, continue the debate from the other forum here, how do you manage it?

As I wrote on the other forum, I'm happy to accept I'm wrong if someone can show me how they can do it differently.

I'm assuming your long stances are equal in length in the forward direction as they are in the backward direction and that you pivot on the ball of your foot. The animated GIF I did for the other forum shows foot positions based on that and you finish up behind the starting point.

OK Miles, so spill the beans - how do you do it differently?

Both the logical diagram (animated GIF), the Kukkiwon DVD and the Dartfish DVD have one finishing behind the starting point (I grant you the Dartfish one is harder to determine, but there is a slight pattern on the floor you can use to determine start position along with using a mouse/pointer).

 

[Miles]

OK then, continue the debate from the other forum here, how do you manage it?

As I wrote on the other forum, I'm happy to accept I'm wrong if someone can show me how they can do it differently.

I'm assuming your long stances are equal in length in the forward direction as they are in the backward direction and that you pivot on the ball of your foot. The animated GIF I did for the other forum shows foot positions based on that and you finish up behind the starting point.

OK Miles, so spill the beans - how do you do it differently?

Both the logical diagram (animated GIF), the Kukkiwon DVD and the Dartfish DVD have one finishing behind the starting point (I grant you the Dartfish one is harder to determine, but there is a slight pattern on the floor you can use to determine start position along with using a mouse/pointer).

I watched your GIF about 10 times and don't see any errors. I do think my stances are consistent and I do pivot on the balls of my feet. At first I thought your move #3 was too far behind the starting line but when I do it while watching my feet, I agree you are behind the starting line. I also thought you did not step forward into the second bar (reverse middle section blocks, reverse punches) and then into the third bar (face blocks), but after watchng your GIF, you did it correctly. Nevertheless, I did the poomsae blindfolded and still landed in the right spot.

As far as the Kukkiwon and WTF dvds, I can't tell that the respective GM's do or do not land in the right spot. Maybe if I watched the Dartfish dvd from the overhead view I could tell better-will have to get it out when I have time.

Miles

 

[andyjeffries]

For the Kukkiwon one, watch the paving slabs, it's a bit tricky but if you keep a finger/mouse cursor on the starting slab-join, you can see it when they finish.

I don't dispute that some people do finish on the same spot, and I don't necessarily think it's incorrect, I just want to know how they manage it...

I hope you just closed your eyes or did this before class started, bilndfolded may have looked a bit weird to potential students Master Miles :-D

 

[Miles]

I hope you just closed your eyes or did this before class started, bilndfolded may have looked a bit weird to potential students Master Miles :-D

When we do "blindfolded" training, we wear our sparring helmuts on backwards. I make students testing for 2nd dan do Koryo "blindfolded" so we can see whether they go up and down the lines straight and how good their balance really is. (sorry to end the sentence with a "preposition"

Miles
BTW, I'm just Miles or Peter....just another student.

 

[Last Fearner]

When we do "blindfolded" training, we wear our sparring helmuts on backwards. I make students testing for 2nd dan do Koryo "blindfolded" so we can see whether they go up and down the lines straight and how good their balance really is. (sorry to end the sentence with a "preposition"

What preposition? "Is" is a verb.

Last Fearner

 

[IcemanSK]

"Ending a sentence in a preposition is something up with which I will not put." -Winston Churchill-