W
WilliamTLear
Guest
I was always taught to look before executing these techniques.
Take Care,
Billy Lear
Take Care,
Billy Lear
K
Kirk
Guest
These are the only 2 techs I've been taught that have a right
flank left shoulder grab. Both require a strike without really
looking behind you.
In thinking of a scenario that would give a purpose for this
defense, it all changes, and goes really really bad if the one
grabbing you is a cop, or buddy of yours. Maybe you're fighting
multiple attackers, and your buddy comes up puts his hand on
your shoulder to stop you from going to crazy on the attackers.
Maybe it's a cop, going "okay, that's enough!" (or the owner
of the establishment you're in club, bar, airport, whatever).
Share some ideas on when one should consider using one or the
other of these techs. I'd be just a little scared to ever use it,
personally. Enlighten me!
flank left shoulder grab. Both require a strike without really
looking behind you.
In thinking of a scenario that would give a purpose for this
defense, it all changes, and goes really really bad if the one
grabbing you is a cop, or buddy of yours. Maybe you're fighting
multiple attackers, and your buddy comes up puts his hand on
your shoulder to stop you from going to crazy on the attackers.
Maybe it's a cop, going "okay, that's enough!" (or the owner
of the establishment you're in club, bar, airport, whatever).
Share some ideas on when one should consider using one or the
other of these techs. I'd be just a little scared to ever use it,
personally. Enlighten me!
K
Kirk
Guest
We did it again today, and yes, look while striking is what I was
told. It's kind of simultaneous, but you should look in enough
time to see who it is, but also to prevent a right handed punch
also.
told. It's kind of simultaneous, but you should look in enough
time to see who it is, but also to prevent a right handed punch
also.
AvPKenpo
Blue Belt
Originally posted by Kirk
These are the only 2 techs I've been taught that have a right
flank left shoulder grab. Both require a strike without really
looking behind you.
In thinking of a scenario that would give a purpose for this
defense, it all changes, and goes really really bad if the one
grabbing you is a cop, or buddy of yours. Maybe you're fighting
multiple attackers, and your buddy comes up puts his hand on
your shoulder to stop you from going to crazy on the attackers.
Maybe it's a cop, going "okay, that's enough!" (or the owner
of the establishment you're in club, bar, airport, whatever).
Share some ideas on when one should consider using one or the
other of these techs. I'd be just a little scared to ever use it,
personally. Enlighten me!
Wrong......(don't know who taught you that one).........ALWAYS LOOK BEFORE YOU STRIKE!
Like you said you never know when your buddy is the one behind you.
Michael
AvPKenpo
Blue Belt
Let me restate. At no time do I feel that a practitioner should ever throw a 'blind strike' you never know who is there, or what they are doing. This means on the street or in the ring. You should always be aware of who or what is around you. Its only smart. You can get yourself hurt, or you can hurt someone that is your friend.
Michael
Michael
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
glance using your peripheral vision.... in this case, but there are occasions when you can and will strike blind.
:asian:
:asian:
B
brianhunter
Guest
I was taught look before I strike also but this could change due to environment, perception of where I was, who was around me etc.:jediduel:
Les
Brown Belt
Here's a question.
If the attack is coming from your RIGHT FLANK, why are you concerned with looking BEHIND you?
Is the attack for Sword and Hammer a rear shoulder grab, or a flank shoulder grab.
I practice and teach it as a right flank attack, which means it's coming from the SIDE, not the rear.
Les
If the attack is coming from your RIGHT FLANK, why are you concerned with looking BEHIND you?
Is the attack for Sword and Hammer a rear shoulder grab, or a flank shoulder grab.
I practice and teach it as a right flank attack, which means it's coming from the SIDE, not the rear.
Les
J
jeffkyle
Guest
That is how I teach both techniques.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
I was taught that you more or less have to look that way in Sword and Hammer, because you're getting yanked. A similar question might be raised about Falcons of Force?
I think that one of Mr. Tatum's Tips deals with Sword and Hammer...from one viewpoint, anyway.
I think that one of Mr. Tatum's Tips deals with Sword and Hammer...from one viewpoint, anyway.
pete
Master Black Belt
S&H is taught at yellow belt because of its ease of execution and elementary use of motion, however the responsibility associated with this technique exceeds the training associated with that novice level.
The system of EPAK that I learned has also integrated several techniques from Parker's older Chinese Kenpo system in the lower belt curriculum. Two of which may represent technically more advanced motion, but a far less lethal effect.
(1) Wrap Around, where you pin and step towards the attacker, while locking up his arm by wrapping your right arm up and around his in a circular clockwise motion.
(2) Wing Break, where you pin and step away from the attacker extending his arm, and attacking his elbow with a right upward palm heel. You then continue to circle your right arm up and around his arm (a la wrap around), go into a left rear twist and throw him down as you unwind from the twist.
Both of these give the defender ample time to identify the attacker and continue only when necessary. I have a lot of trouble teaching S&H without the disclaimer that it is strictly for laboratory purposes and should not be tried at home.
Falcons of Force is taught at Brown-3 in our curriculum. By that time, more knowledge and insight into cause and effect of these techniques are appreciated, along with greater responsibility. Besides, FofF is against 2 guys surrounding you, and more apt to know there is trouble afoot...
pete.
The system of EPAK that I learned has also integrated several techniques from Parker's older Chinese Kenpo system in the lower belt curriculum. Two of which may represent technically more advanced motion, but a far less lethal effect.
(1) Wrap Around, where you pin and step towards the attacker, while locking up his arm by wrapping your right arm up and around his in a circular clockwise motion.
(2) Wing Break, where you pin and step away from the attacker extending his arm, and attacking his elbow with a right upward palm heel. You then continue to circle your right arm up and around his arm (a la wrap around), go into a left rear twist and throw him down as you unwind from the twist.
Both of these give the defender ample time to identify the attacker and continue only when necessary. I have a lot of trouble teaching S&H without the disclaimer that it is strictly for laboratory purposes and should not be tried at home.
Falcons of Force is taught at Brown-3 in our curriculum. By that time, more knowledge and insight into cause and effect of these techniques are appreciated, along with greater responsibility. Besides, FofF is against 2 guys surrounding you, and more apt to know there is trouble afoot...
pete.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Regrettably, I tend to think that it is a very rare yellow belt who will be able to tie somebody up effectively in an emergency. But then, that is the way I was taught, and I tend to be a bit of a klutz...
When I teach Sword and Hammer to a student, I tell them that the "secret" of the technique is to look before you strike. Is it a secret? To any one with common sense, probably not. Common sense seems to evaporate in the presence of fear. Therefore, you must ingrain looking before you strike into your subconscious. Very insidious that technique is.....
Les
Brown Belt
Seig, I'm with you on that.
Imagine shooting out a full power handsword without looking only to discover that your attacker came to the battle by motorcycle, and was so eager to 'mix it' with you that he didn't even stop to take his full face crash helmet off.
Or he's holding a meat cleaver in his hand and it's directly in your handswords line of travel. Whoops!
Les
pete
Master Black Belt
sorry, i guess i wasn't clear, but wrap around is introduced at orange and wing break at purple. they work on similar principles as locked wing also taught at orange, and they tend to compliment the system very nicely.
just as many would argue not to remove so-called worthless and impractical techniques from EPAK, my instructor feels that some of the previous generations techniques have not been adequately replaced and chooses to continue teaching them. these 2 are good examples...
and even though we've never met, i doubt that you're much of a klutz.. perhaps, just human like the rest of us...
pete
pete
Master Black Belt
here ya go les... if ya have any q's, feel free to PM me... pete.
Wrap Around: pin attackers hand to your shoulder and step in towards the attacker with your right foot to 2:00. rotate your right arm up and around his in a circular clockwise motion to lock him up. Using an uppercut thrust at the end of the lock can inflict even greater damage. a eye rake can be activated as your arm circles around.
Wing Break: pin the hand to your shoulder, but this time step away from the attacker with your left foot to 9:00, thereby extending his arm. attacking his locked elbow with a right upward palm heel. then circle your right arm counter clocksise up and around his arm so that your hand reaches and grabs his shoulder. go into a left rear twist and throw him down as you unwind from the twist. an elbow to the bicep can be activated during the circular arm movement, as well as a side knife edge kick to the face as he is falling from the throw.
Wrap Around: pin attackers hand to your shoulder and step in towards the attacker with your right foot to 2:00. rotate your right arm up and around his in a circular clockwise motion to lock him up. Using an uppercut thrust at the end of the lock can inflict even greater damage. a eye rake can be activated as your arm circles around.
Wing Break: pin the hand to your shoulder, but this time step away from the attacker with your left foot to 9:00, thereby extending his arm. attacking his locked elbow with a right upward palm heel. then circle your right arm counter clocksise up and around his arm so that your hand reaches and grabs his shoulder. go into a left rear twist and throw him down as you unwind from the twist. an elbow to the bicep can be activated during the circular arm movement, as well as a side knife edge kick to the face as he is falling from the throw.
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