Support Choice?

[punisher73]

I don't know if it has been addressed yet, or how the Catholic hospitals work. But, if they accept even $1 of state/federal money than the govt does have the right to tell how it's practices will be run. I know this has been the case with universities and their policies in the past and the universities have lost because of that.

As to the question itself, we have been allowing the government to tell private businesses how they can run things for awhile now. Look at many of the anti-smoking bans in private restuarants and bars. Now, we ALL get to walk through the nasty cloud of smoke on the street because they are all gathered outside the door.

 

[Carol]

Absolutely they do. For example, in 2009-2010, St. Joseph's Hospital in Nashua, NH received $400,000, St. Anselm's college in Manchester, NH(not a hospital, but a nursing school) in Manchester, NH received $800,000

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&sid=cp111kkesc&r_n=sr066.111&dbname=cp111&&sel=TOC_178060&
http://www.anselm.edu/About-Saint-Anselm.htm
http://stjosephhospital4.reachlocal.net/About/History-Mission-Values

Additionally, there is a federal program called "Title X Family Planning". This is a program that supplies monies specifically for family planning and contraception, particularly for low-income people if I am not mistaken. If a hospital receives monies under Title X Family Planning, that money must absolutely go to Title X Family Planning.

 

[elder999]

1458373[/URL]]I don't think it is much ado about nothing. It is certainly 'something' for Catholics who follow Church precepts. To wit:

http://www.fordham.edu/campus_resou...tudent_health_servi/medical_services_1524.asp

.

And yet, Bill, from the very same webpage:

For students enrolled in Fordham's Optional Sickness Insurance Plan administered by Collegiated Insurance Resources, please see the section on "Contraceptive Services Expense Benefit", pages 19-20, for information on coverage and deductibles (note: covered services are subject to applicable co-payments of $100 under the Prescription Drug Benefit Plan portion of the program). For general insurance questions on this coverage, please feel free to contact the broker at (800) 322-9901.

The option's available-presumably for those students who aren't Catholic.

 

[cdunn]

Maybe we should take health care out of the hands of the employers. It would save the Church and other various organizations from having to accept that not all employees may have the same morals as their decision makers when it comes to their private lives.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Absolutely they do. For example, in 2009-2010, St. Joseph's Hospital in Nashua, NH received $400,000, St. Anselm's college in Manchester, NH(not a hospital, but a nursing school) in Manchester, NH received $800,000

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&sid=cp111kkesc&r_n=sr066.111&dbname=cp111&&sel=TOC_178060&
http://www.anselm.edu/About-Saint-Anselm.htm
http://stjosephhospital4.reachlocal.net/About/History-Mission-Values

Additionally, there is a federal program called "Title X Family Planning". This is a program that supplies monies specifically for family planning and contraception, particularly for low-income people if I am not mistaken. If a hospital receives monies under Title X Family Planning, that money must absolutely go to Title X Family Planning.

The bottom line for me is this. The Catholic Church has for a very long time provided services to their local communities as part of their religious mission. Now they are being required to do something that they have not previously been required to do - for whatever reason - and from what I can tell, no one except (some) Catholics have a problem with this. I see this as a one-way street. As a Catholic, I am supposed to accept that the will of the people, and not the will of the church, is the law of the land. If we choose as a people to use birth control and abortion, then no religion can stop it. And I'm OK with that, I really am. But if it was really all about 'choice', then a religion that chooses NOT to pay for or provide birth control or abortions should also have their right to choose respected. But no. So it's not about choice. It's about 'do it my way or we will force you to do it by law'. Nice. Try to remember that when I put my money into the collection plate or respond to the annual Bishop's Appeal to support Catholic social services and charities, I am spending MY MONEY to fund the things that matter to me as a Catholic. If you're saying I have to fund abortions with my donation dollars, guess what? No more donations from me. How's that work for ya? Maybe you can force the Catholic Church to violate her moral principles, but you can't force me to pay for it; and I won't. I refuse.

As regards the Church, for those of you who attend Mass (apparently not many of you, or you'd know this by now), the various Cardinals in the US have ordered a letter read in every Mass last Sunday, explaining the situation and refusing to comply with the new regulations. In other words, we, the Catholic Church, will not obey this law. And if it means that the hospitals, social services, and other providers of services that are under the control of the Catholic Church shut down and no longer provide services for our local communities, then that is what it means. That's what you want, that's what you get.

Sometimes, people refuse to be bullied. I believe (and hope) that this is one of those times. I sincerely hope Obama backs down, or the USA is going to lose a lot of extremely important medical and social assistance.

 

[granfire]

Well, the Catholic Church has been pretty good about bullying, too, so there.

If the social work is a religious tenet, then they should do it, in adversity, should earn them browny points.

 

[ballen0351]

I thought when this health care thing was passed they said it could not be used to fund abortions or birth control. Thats how they got the blue dog Dems to vote for it. Or did I imagine all that?

 

[Big Don]

Well, the Catholic Church has been pretty good about bullying, too, so there.

If the social work is a religious tenet, then they should do it, in adversity, should earn them browny points.

Since giving alms, i.e., charity is one of the five pillars of Islam:
Sure, lets force Islamic charities that serve food to serve ham three days a week. How is that going to go over?

 

[granfire]

Since giving alms, i.e., charity is one of the five pillars of Islam:
Sure, lets force Islamic charities that serve food to serve ham three days a week. How is that going to go over?

Don't be obtuse.
You can prepare a million meals and never throw a pig on the plate. And never miss it.

Well, miss the BC one time, you might notice.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

No, sorry. All I'm hearing is intolerance. Either "the Catholic Church has done lots of bad things, so too bad," or "they should be forced to do good things even if they don't want to." Few of you are willing to let a religious institution provide services according to their own morals and principles. So you do NOT support choice; you admit as much.

Choice, to you, is we who do not believe in abortion, birth control, and same-sex adoptions have to put up with it anyway, but YOU do not have to put up with us practicing our faith in our daily lives; nope, not at all. There's some choice for you. So tolerant of the beliefs of others. You know, tolerance, that thing you demand of us. You get it, but you won't give it.

Disappointing. And you seem to have missed my statement; the Catholic Church has declared they will not comply with these restrictions. If push comes to shove, that means Catholic-supported charities and hospitals and social services will close, they'll go away. They may receive some federal and state funds for the services they provide; but they also receive a lot of money from donations from Catholics. I won't donate to things that go against my religion; you can't make me do it.

There are children now in Illinois that no longer have a roof over their heads because the Catholic Social Services closed down; and they closed down because the state tried to bully them into placing children with same-sex couples, which might be something you're in favor of (and I understand if you are, because *I* am tolerant), but you refuse to accept that a religious institution finds is unacceptable and therefore won't do it.

So everybody loses because of your intolerance. Isn't that nice? I thought better of you than that.

 

[ballen0351]

Christians are the only group that it is still PC to bash. Its become quite the sport for the left. If you dont like the Churchs position then dont go to a Cathloic Hospital go to a different one. Dont take a job at a Catholic Orginzation if you dont like what they stand for. But its more fun to piss them off and try for a reaction.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Christians are the only group that it is still PC to bash. Its become quite the sport for the left. If you dont like the Churchs position then dont go to a Cathloic Hospital go to a different one. Dont take a job at a Catholic Orginzation if you dont like what they stand for. But its more fun to piss them off and try for a reaction.

I have to agree. You take a typical religious charity that has 'civilian' employees, which it pays and provides benefits for, such as health insurance. But because the religion in question doesn't agree with, say, abortion, they won't pay for that form of insurance coverage for their employees. Note that employees can work elsewhere. Or they can pay for such services themselves, or obtain insurance elsewhere. But that's not good enough for the oh-so-very tolerant respecters of the beliefs of others; well, they respect the beliefs of others IF THEY AGREE WITH THEM. They demand we tolerate their choices; and we do. They do not extend that courtesy to others.

I have no say in how my taxes are spent. I have to pay to fund things I don't agree with. All I can do is vote for people whom I think will spend my taxes the way I want them spent; but in the end, I have no choice.

Now I am being told I am not to be allowed to have a choice in how I spend my charitable contributions either. I can contribute to my religion's charitable activities, but the money will be spent the way I do not want it spent, in ways that are actually against my religious beliefs. And THAT is fair somehow? That is respecting my rights? My only recourse it to withhold my contributions entirely? Either I have to give to fund things I don't like, or I can't give at all? Nice.

 

[granfire]

No, sorry. All I'm hearing is intolerance. Either "the Catholic Church has done lots of bad things, so too bad," or "they should be forced to do good things even if they don't want to." Few of you are willing to let a religious institution provide services according to their own morals and principles. So you do NOT support choice; you admit as much.

Choice, to you, is we who do not believe in abortion, birth control, and same-sex adoptions have to put up with it anyway, but YOU do not have to put up with us practicing our faith in our daily lives; nope, not at all. There's some choice for you. So tolerant of the beliefs of others. You know, tolerance, that thing you demand of us. You get it, but you won't give it.

Disappointing. And you seem to have missed my statement; the Catholic Church has declared they will not comply with these restrictions. If push comes to shove, that means Catholic-supported charities and hospitals and social services will close, they'll go away. They may receive some federal and state funds for the services they provide; but they also receive a lot of money from donations from Catholics. I won't donate to things that go against my religion; you can't make me do it.

There are children now in Illinois that no longer have a roof over their heads because the Catholic Social Services closed down; and they closed down because the state tried to bully them into placing children with same-sex couples, which might be something you're in favor of (and I understand if you are, because *I* am tolerant), but you refuse to accept that a religious institution finds is unacceptable and therefore won't do it.

So everybody loses because of your intolerance. Isn't that nice? I thought better of you than that.

Yeah, blame it on Obama that the Church shut down their operations.

Are you kidding me?

this is the 21st century, we are nearing how many billion people on this planet now?!

The Catholic church is no victim. Never was. It has it's hands in so many pies, the pope should be a diabetic by default!

It's massive hypocrisy.

It's always been this way. OH EM GEE BIRTH CONTROL.
Like I said: The priests are also supposed to be celebate....maybe if they gave some BC to their mistresses....

Be religious as you want. That's fine. But there are the standards of the land in a legal manner. and I for one applaude it.

It's a man's world out there, safe for a few isolated pockets.
Pregnancy is probably the number one cause for poverty among women, across the globe.

yes, we still oppose birth control by means of religion.....

It's BS. Sand in your eyes, Smoke and mirrors.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Yeah, blame it on Obama that the Church shut down their operations.

Are you kidding me?

No, I'm not kidding you. Your dislike of the Catholic Church is clear; and I won't say you're not right about much of it. The Church as much to answer for.

But that's not the issue. This isn't about punishing the Church for all the wrong it's done, even if you think that's appropriate.

It's about the right of a religion to provide their employees with health insurance coverage that conforms to their own morals and principles. It's about MY right to give my charitable donations to my own religious institutions in accordance with my own beliefs; you flat out state I'm not allowed to follow my own beliefs because you don't like the Catholic Church.

That's horrible. You should be ashamed.

 

[ballen0351]

It goes back to freedom of choice if you don't like it choose a different hospital. If you don't like it choose a different place to work. I don't like liberals so I would never take a job for the democratic national party or the brady campaign. Its simple really. I don't want to force them to change just for me so I choose not to go there. If you want birth control then don't get a job working for catholic church. Having mistresses has nothing to do with the argument. It just shows you can't be unbias in your argument and are out to punish the church. Like the bully saying ha ha ill fix you.

 

[Monroe]

Meh, I don't like the idea of catholic hospitals and clinics to start with. If they run a hospital or clinic, then they demand to run it how they see fit in the community. That includes refusing to offer plan b to rape victims as part of rape kits, not offering abortion amongst options for women who need counseling for an unplanned pregnancy and so on. I'm content to see a catholic hospital/clinic shut down. I'd much rather see a real hospital/planned parenthood there instead.

 

[ballen0351]

Yeah we have too many hospitals anyway. They don't do any good for the community. That's a great plan. The wait at the ER on a sat night can be longer no big deal. Shut them down. Planned parenthood is very useful to people in serious car accidents.

Meh, I don't like the idea of catholic hospitals and clinics to start with. If they run a hospital or clinic, then they demand to run it how they see fit in the community. That includes refusing to offer plan b to rape victims as part of rape kits, not offering abortion amongst options for women who need counseling for an unplanned pregnancy and so on. I'm content to see a catholic hospital/clinic shut down. I'd much rather see a real hospital/planned parenthood there instead.

 

[Big Don]

Don't be obtuse.
You can prepare a million meals and never throw a pig on the plate. And never miss it.

Well, miss the BC one time, you might notice.

So, suggesting the same standard, that all religions who provide charity ignore their beliefs is being obtuse?
BTW, Islam... not fans of abortion...
1

. Deliberate termination of a human fetus in a surgical, chemical or by any other artificial method is intrinsically an unlawful act in Islam and its doer will be held liable both in here and in the hereafter.

2. A pregnant woman from the Islamic point of view is not the owner of her fetus as parents are not the owners of their children. She is rather entrusted with a human being in its early stages of its life responsible for its nourishment and development. The likeness of a mother's womb in Islam is the likeness of enriched tilth for cultivation.[1]

3. In Islam ‘all life matters'. Killing an innocent human even in its early stages as in abortion is like killing the whole of mankind, and to save a single human even in its fetus or embryonic stage is like saving the life of the whole of mankind

http://www.islamic-laws.com/abortion.htm

Force the Islamic charities to provide funds for abortions. See how that goes over...

 

[Big Don]

It is pretty easy to attack people for their beliefs, especially when they don't tend to blow up over insults. Those who do react explosively are remarkably insulated from criticism...

 

[ballen0351]

Better add the susan g komen to your list of places you want to shutdown they are cutting grants to your beloved planned parenthood

Meh, I don't like the idea of catholic hospitals and clinics to start with. If they run a hospital or clinic, then they demand to run it how they see fit in the community. That includes refusing to offer plan b to rape victims as part of rape kits, not offering abortion amongst options for women who need counseling for an unplanned pregnancy and so on. I'm content to see a catholic hospital/clinic shut down. I'd much rather see a real hospital/planned parenthood there instead.