Street guys. Please give direct technical answers.

[Kung Fu Wang]

The majority of the more effective "self-defense techniques" come from martial arts/combat sports.

If you train this 10 punches combo

1. right jab
2. left cross
3. right hook
4. left hook
5. right uppercut
6. left uppercut
7. right overhand
8. right back fist
9. left overhand
10. left back fist

200 times daily for 3 years, most of the street guy won't be able to get out of your punching combo. Your attack is 3 dimensional and not linear. IMO, this 10 punches combo should be included in all MA systems.

 

[drop bear]

The majority of the more effective "self-defense techniques" come from martial arts/combat sports. However, the training method is where a lot of the disagreements stems from. Self-defense systems will emphasize situation-based scenarios/common attacks like multiple attackers, confined spaces, surprise attacks, front chokes, haymakers etc. Martial arts/combat sports focus more so on body mechanics, positioning, footwork, technique refinement, sparring, pressure testing, etc. There's value in both methods, but learning fundamental body mechanics, advantageous positioning(striking or grappling), power generation and footwork in martial arts/combat sports are going to be major factors in an altercation's outcome if it's turned physical.

Rokas did a self-defense series on YouTube where he had a pro mma fighter, some traditional martial artist and a few self-defense instructors but through various self-defense scenarios. The pro mma fighter consistently performed better in all of them, the self-defense instructor performed the worse. The fighter's core skills of distance management, footwork, timing and advantageous positioning(striking and grappling) is what got him through all of the scenarios.

This one is better.

 

[Fungus]

When someone rapes your wife, will you

- run away (avoid)?
- knee down and beg your opponent not to rape your wife (de-escalation)?
- just a punch on your opponent's face and knock him down (send evil to the hell)?

When people talk about self-defense, they should also consider "to protect your loved one"

Yes, of course.

because escape and de-escalation have no meaning in that situation.

de-escalation or avoidance has the same meaning in that case - to prevent the loved ones from ending up in that situation, bu in that case it is not You that does the de-escalation or avoidance, it's them, if possible. At best, deterring the attacker from stopping may be an option.

Otherwise, times for negotiations are over and only one thing remains yes.

 

[Fungus]

De-escalation is a tricky one. Because look. In training. I will either choose to hit you or I won't.

No amount of De-escalation will change that outcome.

So you can drill the bare bones of it. But you can't drill it to get any good at it. Because the feedback is wrong.

Yes, de-escalation is all about psychology, getting into the head of the attacker. Not something you easily train in the dojo or the ring. I agree. But it's still a critical thing for "self-defence".

 

[Badhabits]

You know, I've used blocks in "real" fights and they worked. And lots of self defense training. But when someone actually asks me about self defense, I tell them hit as hard and fast as possible until they don't move anymore. Funny.

 

[Rich Parsons]

2K views · 217 reactions | If it works so well, why don't they do it in MMA? #coachbritt #lasvegascombatacademy ##lasvegaskravmaga #creatorsearchinsights | Las Vegas Combat Academy

If it works so well, why don't they do it in MMA? #coachbritt #lasvegascombatacademy ##lasvegaskravmaga #creatorsearchinsights.

www.facebook.com

Hopefully the link works.

Anyway this video is in response to why you don't see blocks in the UFC. (Which you do. )

But instead of discussing that. Or instead of a technical explanation why you might block in your system. It has to walk down the road that MMA is somehow less the street in some vague way that doesn't really make any sense. And how MMA fighters don’t have the grounding in self defence. (Which isn't accurate)

I would suggest if you do self defence. Do yourself a service and explain the reasons you do something in a way that makes you sound like you understand the subject.

And I will give a counter point.

I could ask any decent sports guy why they do something. And I doubt I would get an answer "because the sport" unless they are specifically capitalising on a rule set.

And even then they would probably be specific.

This type of explanation undermines self defence systems.

Hi Drop Bear,

(* Please excuse my spelling - I am from the USA aka Defence vs Defense *)

I prefer for myself for self defense to use open hand techniques for striking.
My Size even with multiple people is bad for camera angles with a closed hand.

I also prefer small joint locks.
And almost all the sports reject / disallow / make illegal and so forth the small joint locks and breaks.
For a really valid safety reason.

Yet, I find them very useful , or I should say I have in the past found them very useful even against strong wrestlers and grapplers.
e.g. OW! That's Illegal!
So is the assault you did on me, and I am only trying to stop you to get off me so I can leave. Now surrender and I will stop hurting you.

I also really like Marv from the Movie Sin City.
Besides the moving bandages and that they kept getting smaller as he healed, he used quick and dirty strikes.
Throat punches,
Eye pokes.
Quick and violent.

In the theater I was cheering him on very loudly.
I think that scared people including the ones that went with me that were not into martial arts or self defense.

When I have had to deal with multiple people, I found four people was the fair number.
Not because I am that good, more like they could not engage enough and I could not hurt them fast enough safely enough.
If there was more some always hung back
If there was less usually hurting the lead person quickly and violently made the rest hesitate.

OF course there was that one team of six that where two guys two one each and the other four had me as they worked in a team.
We went up and down exchanging shots and it including going through a plate glass window. All of us went. I was the least hurt as I rolled and they fell and staid there for the glass as it was going up and then back down. Even safety glass can paper cut one a lot

Improvised weapons are also self defense related that are usually not sports related. My favorite was a tuna fish can I kicked finding footing while ten plus guys approached rapidly. I picked it up and palmed. It was not opened.

Now, I am also one for how one trains is how they will act.
So the strikers hitting the board on the walls and the bags hard will hit their opponents hard.
If the kicker always practices to only miss they will likely miss when it counts.

And those who resist in their training will benefit from it.

I was at a seminar with multiple instructors. one of the other instructors was doing wrist releases and many of the people were missing the pysic of the release and only working the strike. Which to be honest the instructor emphasized

This woman came across the build and grabbed me and said come with me to help me.
So I followed her to her and her friend.
She said you are the biggest guy here. And even when you were working the second biggest guy here you did not have to use the strike.
I Need that!

So I worked that with her.
Then I increased the grip.
I gave her a grip that made yelp and then she focused and did it.
I told her after doing it there for a while as we had moved back and forth on wrists to give it a break and also to practice both.

I said I am going to grab you and drag you with me.
DO THE RELEASE. (* I said with my bouncer GET OUT Face *)

She nodded. I grabbed her and out of her stance she came and I was pulling her across the floor.
I kept telling her to do it.
She did.
Then she said AGAIN !
Of course most had watched it were scared of what we were doing and wondering is a real assault was happening.

I turned to the seminar and stated she wanted some private instruction for this specifically with me using strength and making her uncomfortable.
She told them. Yes I asked him to do this.

When she got it with only a step to stabilize herself from the pull then we worked on the strikes.

She left with one technique she could do and felt comfortable doing.

I was teaching a seminar with another instructor and my ex girlfriend ( We were friends. Which is why she showed up when I told it would be near by her. )
She showed up for the other instructor and they worked some quick defenses using a knife against the person who broke into your house.
I had aluminum trainers.
She stabbed and stabbed me.
Everyone was wondering what was going on as all my NOK knives were being used by others.
I mouthed to two guys "Ex Girlfriend" And then cringed and turned away knowing I was going to get my butt handed to me.
Later she asked when others were asking if I was injured.
Yes I am bruised and sore and hurting.
Yet now you know the correct level of engagement for it to work.
Small price to pay for another person to leave with something they could use if they had too.

To me sports have rules.
Rules are for protecting people and making sure they come back.
I respect that.
I also respect that those who commit to the sport usually have Cardio and fitness as well.

Self Defense has no rules and simple things can work for lots of people.

Size matters.

Training and skill matters.

Someone with my level or training would be dangerous.
Someone with my size is dangerous with lucky shots alone.

So meeting someone with my level of training and size makes it even harder for one to defend.
And it makes me use open hands for the perspective of those watching and recording.

More Ramblings Later

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When I have had to deal with multiple people, I found four people was the fair number.

One multiple opponent training that I like is to have A and B sparring. C is standing outside of the ring and can jump in to attack either A or B. Both A and B have to watch out for C to develop environmental alert.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When I have had to deal with multiple people,

SC 1 against many training.

 

[Rich Parsons]

SC 1 against many training.

Yes when they all take their own time it works out fine.
When they work in tandem or as a team then it is very different.

See about 1:20 into this video as an example of team up

 

[Anarax]

This one is better.

I definitely need to go back for a rewatch. I wasn't aware of the zombie challenge. I do recall the mma fighters did well in most of them.

 

[Anarax]

I fully agree. But how many seasoned MMA fighters are out there compared to annual attacks? Not many.
Long before I had any MA's training or wrestling experience, I grew up 'hard country', the smallest of my brothers and cousins. Believe me when I tell you we learned how to 'fight' pretty young.

Annual attacks referring to crime statistics? The skill threshold for a trained fighter to handle themselves on the street doesn't have to be that as a pro.

Learning how to scrap definitely has a mental conditioning element. However, training with higher skilled partners while receiving expert instruction will accelerate your development and your skill level. Rough housing is better than nothing, until you encounter someone trained.

Learned leverage and angles before I even knew I was doing it, out of necessity. Heck, we would fight for fun but it usually escalated.
But there was SO much I did not know, and was likely not willing to commit to even if I did know it that age/mental maturity.

There's definitely things we pick up through sparring, hence is why so many combat sport gyms do it. Sparring is invaluable, even technical, doesn't need to always be hard.

Hard sparring/MMA/grappling and hard self defense training take things to another level. Since there is a Lot that you just cannot train full speed/power, it can require a heavy mental component.

I agree, the sparring element is more mental training to get comfortable with contact and how to utilize your training under pressure.

Remember, even in MMA, when you are on there mat, there are rules.

Yes, but if you take those rules out of mma, the outcome will almost always be the same.

 

[Anarax]

Also while I think of it. Blocking is harder and a higher tier skill than say covering or head movement.

Because you have to constantly manage distance.
The UFC fighters who do block are generally really slick strikers. And have really good mobility.

You won't see it with the stand toe to toe and trade guys.

It's interesting, in the movie Southpaw Jake Gyllenhaal's boxing coach played by Forest Whitaker explains the advantages blocking has over covering up.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I could ask any decent sports guy why they do something. And I doubt I would get an answer "because the sport" unless they are specifically capitalising on a rule set.

And even then they would probably be specific.

This type of explanation undermines self defence systems.

I don’t think so.

I could take an MMA fighter into some of the bad parts of Baltimore City and he could fail in all things self-defense that don’t involve fighting. In fact, because he knows how to fight, it might actually put him at greater risk of being attacked—not less. He’d signal the wrong thing, escalate when he should disengage, and miss the cues that someone from that environment would catch instantly.

Now take someone who’s lived in those dangerous areas. They might not know how to fight, but they know how to move, how to avoid bait, how to disappear before trouble starts. That’s self-defense too.

Self-defense isn’t just about fighting. I’d say fighting makes up less than 30% of it. The rest is behavioral awareness, emotional control, and knowing how to navigate the terrain.

Ask people in high-risk neighborhoods what they do for self-defense, and they’ll give you detailed, experience-based logic. They know exactly why they do what they do. It’s not vague—it’s just not explained in martial arts terms.

I think the bigger issue is simple: people who use vs. people who don’t use. Those two camps never explain things the same way. One speaks from lived experience, the other from non-experience training. That gap is where most of the misunderstanding lives. I see this same issue in Jow Ga. People who fight using Jow Ga techniques vs People who don't use it. The people who use it can give you details the people who don't use it cannot.