Strangest thing

[Xue Sheng]

It is hot and humid today, and for many years, whenever it is like this i feel like i should stop and do some Chen style taijiquan. Not Yang, which i have done longest, not Wu or Sun, both if which I trained…. Just Chen, which i also trained, second longest time of the taijiquan styles.

When i left my first Shifu, who taught a lot if different forms from different styles (one I trained was Chen) i was actually looking for a Chen teacher, that was my first choice, but this was before the wide spread of the internet and i never found one. Long story short, after looking for other styles, i ended up training Yang

But today, 30 years later, even though i have not done much Chen in years, i still feel like i should be doing chen, outside, on a hot snd humid day.

About 9 years ago, in Fort Lauderdale, in June, i think i did Chansijin (chen silk reeling) every day i was there

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you have done Yang, Chen, Wu, and Sun, should you do "your" Taiji today?

I have trained long fist, praying mantis, Baji, Taiji, XingYi, White ape, Zimen, WC. But when I punch/kick, I just do "my" punch/kick because my arm/leg can only function in a certain way, not 8 different ways at the same time.

People said my Baji and praying mantis all look like long fist. To me, that's a good thing. Long fist is my foundation. Anything that I cross trained should also integrated my long fist flavor by default.

 

[windwalker099]

If you have done Yang, Chen, Wu, and Sun, should you do "your" Taiji today?

An interesting question

Have practiced Dong/tung style, CMC style, before finding my last taiji teacher
He once mentioned that once I reached a certain level of understanding I could call "it"
what I wished....

At this point I call "my" taiji "Empty Circle 太极 (Kōng Yuán Tàijí)"

reflecting my veiw point at this time

I have trained long fist, praying mantis, Baji, Taiji, XingYi, White ape, Zimen, WC. But when I punch/kick, I just do "my" punch/kick because my arm/leg can only function in a certain way, not 8 different ways at the same time.

Interesting… I’ve found something similar, but in the opposite direction. Because of my current practice, I can no longer move the way I used to in other styles — Tibetan White Crane, Northern Mantis

The mechanics have changed… my body now responds differently. I did try to combine the taiji with the White Crane at one time, spent some 5 yrs working it out...In the end couldn't do it...movement base to different....had to chose which direction I wanted to go....

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I can no longer move the way I used to in other styles — like Tibetan White Crane or Northern Mantis. The mechanics have changed…

My experience is different.

- Praying mantis make my long fist circular motion smaller.
- Baji make my long fist punch has compress and release.
- Taiji make my long fist move to borrow the end of my previous move.
- XingYi make my long fist hand and foot coordinator better.
- WC make me to consider to protect my center from inside out.
- Zimen make me to send Qi pass through shoulder joint, elbow joint, wrist joint, and reach to fingertips.
- ...

All MA systems have something special. There is no reason not to integrate everything all together.

 

[windwalker099]

My experience is different.

- Praying mantis make my long fist circular motion smaller.
- Baji make my long fist punch has compress and release.
- Taiji make my long fist move to borrow the end of my previous move.
- XingYi make my long fist hand and foot coordinator better.
- WC make me to consider to protect my center from inside out.
- Zimen make me to send Qi pass through shoulder joint, elbow joint, wrist joint, and reach to fingertips.
- ...

All MA systems have something special. There is no reason not to integrate everything all together.

all systems have something of value

Yes our experiences seem to be different, with the styles I had worked with in the past full integration it was not possible for them to work together. White Crane, and Mantis for example....quite different..

Even within Taiji, Chen and Yang emphasize very different movement qualities and internal methods. At a deeper level, they’re not really compatible, trying to blend them often ends up weakening both.

Some people feel they can integrate styles — if you really look at their movement, it still reflects their base style, whatever that may be.

I knew someone who trained under a well-known teacher. That teacher taught Taiji, his foundation was in another art.

I once asked him why he’d want to practice Taiji with me when his teacher was so famous. He said, “My teacher teaches Taiji — but you know Taiji.” There’s a difference between doing the movements and embodying the method.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

trying to blend them often ends up weakening both.

There are 2 different ways to look at this.

1. The style is more important than you - You try to do everything to meet the style requirement. You are the slave of the style.
2. You are more important than the style - You try to make style to meet your need. You are the master of the style.

I like 2 myself. For example, I like the WC "protect center from inside out - if my arms are in my center, you can't attack my center". It maps nicely with my "rhino guard" strategy. In other words, I pick the part that I like from the style to meet my need.

 

[windwalker099]

1. The style is more important than you - You try to do everything to meet the style requirement. You are the slave of the style.
2. You are more important than the style - You try to make style to meet your need. You are the master of the style.

We may see things differently.

People choose a method or style for all kinds of reasons — but for it to actually work, they still have to develop what makes it work. You often mention pole-hanging and other training, isn’t that meeting the method’s requirements?

To me, developing those skills isn’t about serving the style, it’s about making what you practice functional. The real problem comes when someone hasn’t developed the skill set, thinks they have, and then tries to use it — only to find out it doesn’t hold up. How it's tested and level of testing depends on what is being tested, depth of testing...and expected usage...has a lot to do with, what’s developed

 

[Same Trick]

It is hot and humid today, and for many years, whenever it is like this i feel like i should stop and do some Chen style taijiquan. Not Yang, which i have done longest, not Wu or Sun, both if which I trained…. Just Chen, which i also trained, second longest time of the taijiquan styles.

When i left my first Shifu, who taught a lot if different forms from different styles (one I trained was Chen) i was actually looking for a Chen teacher, that was my first choice, but this was before the wide spread of the internet and i never found one. Long story short, after looking for other styles, i ended up training Yang

But today, 30 years later, even though i have not done much Chen in years, i still feel like i should be doing chen, outside, on a hot snd humid day.

About 9 years ago, in Fort Lauderdale, in June, i think i did Chansijin (chen silk reeling) every day i was there

I can somewhat relate to this - ‘Chen Taiji when hot and humid, although I do Hunyuan Taiji forms. But when weather cools down I prefer doing Yang Taiji. Haven’t really reflected over why I prefer this way.
Anyway now I m thinking about my “stranges thing” - the dream I had last night straight out of the blue I dreamt I still into Karate, and I’m about to participate in a tournament and I arrive to find I’ve brought a blue judo-gi instead of a karate-gi, anyway I dress up in the judo-gi and enter the tournament area, then I wake up

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

People choose a method or style for all kinds of reasons — but for it to actually work, they still have to develop what makes it work. You often mention pole-hanging and other training, isn’t that meeting the method’s requirements?

What's the purpose to meet the style require?

When I competed in tournaments, my head lock was not strong enough to make my opponent to tap out. When my head lock was strong enough, I no longer competed in tournament.

What's the usage if you get your PhD degree at your age 60?

 

[Flying Crane]

What’s wrong with getting a PhD at age 60?

 

[windwalker099]

What's the purpose to meet the style require?

When I competed in tournaments, my head lock was not strong enough to make my opponent to tap out. When my head lock was strong enough, I no longer competed in tournament.

What's the usage if you get your PhD degree at your age 60?

An interesting note: In 1993, my practiced based on the CMC 37-step. I won the advanced forms division at the 4th AAU Chinese Martial Arts Competition — hosted by Phillip Starr, a noted practitioner of the time.

Lost in the push hands event
They opened the push hands to all styles.
All the “Taiji” people lost in push hands—
It was funny .

Afterward, the person who won the event, came over, shook my hand, and said:
“Out of everyone here, you’re the only one who actually knows Taiji.”

Even though I lost, I stayed with my practice —

Sometimes it just takes time:
Time to find what you’re looking for.
Time to develop the skill.
Time to meet the right teacher.

Used to judge at local tournaments helping friends who hosted them — both forms and push hands. After the matches, I’d often let participants (win or lose) push hands with me for a bit, if they were open — just to offer another way of seeing things.

These days, not much interested in formal events. Still meet and test hands with people who train for them.
Always good for testing, and meeting others...

A practitioner in Taiwan once said to me:
“I know what I’m doing doesn’t really align with Taiji... but I have to train this way to win.”
The events can be rough...practitioners spend a lot of time training for them

Understood — and respected that.
Not the path I follow.

 

[Appledog]

I did try to combine the taiji with the White Crane at one time, spent some 5 yrs working it out...In the end couldn't do it...movement base to different....had to chose which direction I wanted to go....

If you try to do something like this by yourself it won't work. I think you should have been able to do this easily. Maybe try again

 

[windwalker099]

If you try to do something like this by yourself it won't work. I think you should have been able to do this easily. Maybe try again

Interesting perspective, though in my experience, things don’t always go as theory suggests.

Back when I was in Taiwan, I had a few students helping me test something I called 蒼鷺太極 (Tsang Lu) — a blend of Taiji principles with the long arm and footwork of Tibetan White Crane. The focus was on functional usage and awareness.

After about five years, I realized it wasn’t heading in the direction I was really aiming for. Not because the ideas weren’t sound — but because real practice showed where it couldn't follow what I was looking for.

There’s often a big gap between what we think should work and what actually does.
Curious have you tested anything like that in your own training?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

After about five years, I realized it wasn’t heading in the direction I was really aiming for.

I don't believe you have ever mentioned the direction you are aiming for.

The direction that I'm aiming for is as simple as to enhance my fighting ability. What's your direction?

 

[windwalker099]

I don't believe you have ever mentioned the direction you are aiming for.

The direction that I'm aiming for is as simple as to enhance my fighting ability. What's your direction?

Functionality — using a method I found quite unique.

In working toward that, I’ve come to develop something I call Empty Circle (Kōng Yuán Tàijí / 空圆太极).
It reflects my thinking, offers a path to walk, and gives me a way to continue developing.

Not a style, more a perspective on how to train, move, and interact.

 

[Appledog]

There’s often a big gap between what we think should work and what actually does.
Curious have you tested anything like that in your own training?

Well, keep in mind that my idea of 'White Crane' is apparently a bit different than yours, I'm talking about Feeding Crane. But Feeding Crane is extremely compatible with Chen Style Tai Chi and Xinyi, so I don't understand why anyone would have trouble mixing them.

Xingyi, Xinyi and Tai Chi on the other hand, there are a lot of similarities -- Sun Lu Tang showed this -- As did Feng, but what I have come up with leans more into the 'active' realm and less into the lets slow it down and make it look like tai chi realm.

The footwork is the biggest problem. Tai Chi's footwork is... well... its not great, in comparison.

 

[windwalker099]

Well, keep in mind that my idea of 'White Crane' is apparently a bit different than yours, I'm talking about Feeding Crane. But Feeding Crane is extremely compatible with Chen Style Tai Chi and Xinyi, so I don't understand why anyone would have trouble mixing them.

Specifically listed Tibetan White Crane.

Tsang Lu combines Taiji theory and movement with the unique footwork and long-arm methods of Tibetan White Crane — developing and focusing on functional usage based in awareness.

Quite different from the White Crane styles commonly found in Taiwan, like Feeding Crane.
The structure, strategies, and power generation methods don’t align in the same way.

Anyway the synthesis didn't work out, learned a lot in the process.