Sticks and Stones

ikenpo

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I knew that subject thread would get folks to look...

As I drove home from work last night I was thinking about the proper response to someone who decides to pick up a rock (or stick I guess) and throw it at you? Of course, get out of the way. But are the rules the same as with a gun (projectile)? The threat isn't as great, but a good amount of damage can still occur. Range will definitely play a part in this equation. At what point (in feet) do we not close in. Against a right handed person at 12:00 do we want to go to 2:30 vs 10:30? Is there (a)n (dis)advantage to making them throw across their body? What is your body doing while entering (wedge block, upward (roof) block) or exiting, the wounded crane maybe? (i.e. hand out in front, the other by your face as you hop back on one foot)

Any educated responses or theories will be welcome.

jb:asian:
Houston, Tx
 
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fanged_seamus

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Isn't the idea to AVOID conflict if possible? Someone throwing a rock or a stick is usually at a distance, and the projectile is (relatively) slow moving. Rather than close in and perform a technique, that says to me one should hoof it out of danger....

Cover the face and head, and run away!

Tad, the Coward of the County :D
 
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fanged_seamus

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I didn't read your post carefully enough -- though I still advocate running away. :D

If the person is throwing something, I think one would want to move to the outside of the throwing arm. That forces the person to turn their body or they lose aim and strength in their throw. Turning their body slows their action. Throwing across the body is easier since that is a natural motion for the arm (I think that is called "D2 extension," but I'm not positive).

Additionally, irregular speed (just like running away from a gun) prevents the thrower from "leading" you with the rock. Sprint 10 feet, pause, sprint again. And running towards 7:30 takes you out of range as well as well.

Tad
 

Les

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Originally posted by fanged_seamus

Isn't the idea to AVOID conflict if possible? Someone throwing a rock or a stick is usually at a distance, and the projectile is (relatively) slow moving. Rather than close in and perform a technique, that says to me one should hoof it out of danger....

Cover the face and head, and run away!

Tad, the Coward of the County :D

As I always tell my students........

The BEST form of defense is absence.


Les
 

Kempojujutsu

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Was thinking about this? For a right-hand quarterback it is easier for him to roll right and throw than to roll left and throw. Usually if they roll left they throw high. For left-hander it would be the opposite. I think throwing a football would be easier to throw than say rock, stick, hammer, frying pan.
Bob :D
 
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ikenpo

ikenpo

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Originally posted by fanged_seamus

I didn't read your post carefully enough -- though I still advocate running away. :D

If the person is throwing something, I think one would want to move to the outside of the throwing arm. That forces the person to turn their body or they lose aim and strength in their throw. Turning their body slows their action. Throwing across the body is easier since that is a natural motion for the arm (I think that is called "D2 extension," but I'm not positive).

Additionally, irregular speed (just like running away from a gun) prevents the thrower from "leading" you with the rock. Sprint 10 feet, pause, sprint again. And running towards 7:30 takes you out of range as well as well.

Tad

Ok,

The D2 extension sounds logical enough, but here's a thought. We know that to throw a rock (much like swinging a club, but more so) the hand must pull back before it begins to go forward with the object. That process seems to entail (for a right handed person) stepping back with the right to about 11:30 (if they are at 12:00). So my thought was if I'm within say 6 feet to go to about 2:00 initially to a zone that is almost at the furthest point away from the rock and then attack the right shoulder at 11:00 with a heal palm, grab or punch in an attempt to control their width and prevent arm from building up the momentum before the throw.

My problem with stepping to the side of the throw is that it takes me to the attack and I don't know how fast they will recover to throw. If we use the football analogy. A QB can throw further down the line or on a quick out on their strong side. Whereas we see QB's often lob the ball when they attempt to throw across the body to a receiver on their weak side (unless it's a quick slant and then they receiver is normally catching the ball at about the middle of the field.

Good feedback....

One thing I thought about was grabbing left arm to control the width. Big problem, since the right leg was already back, pulling the guy would just bring him into you and add to the rocks momentum. Didn't try to attack the outside of the left arm however if you could create a fulcrum and get an arm break or hyper extension that would control that width. Or do an inward knuckle rake to the left forearm and try to get him to pull in to the right, thereby making it work in the opposite direction of the throw (maybe???? hadn't tried it yet).

In any case I would say the hands should be in a sort of wedge configuration

jb
 

Nightingale

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last time someone threw something at me, I caught it and threw it back...

it was my math teacher in 10th grade. he threw erasers (the soft squishy harmless ones) at kids who he didn't think were paying attention or had fallen asleep, leaving chalk marks on their jackets. It was a running joke at school, if you had
an eraser print on your shirt, you'd fallen asleep in
Mr. NameRemovedToProtectTheGuilty's math class... he thought I wasn't awake, but at the end of the day, it wasn't me who was walking around with a chalk eraser print on the front of their black silk shirt. He wasn't expecting the return fire.

however, if someone was throwing something malicious at me, I'd....

a....duck.
b....get out of range.
c....pull out my bat-slingshot and return fire. <j/k :p >.
 
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brianhunter

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Originally posted by nightingale8472

last time someone threw something at me, I caught it and threw it back...

it was my math teacher in 10th grade. he threw erasers (the soft squishy harmless ones) at kids who he didn't think were paying attention or had fallen asleep, leaving chalk marks on their jackets. It was a running joke at school, if you had
an eraser print on your shirt, you'd fallen asleep in
Mr. NameRemovedToProtectTheGuilty's math class... he thought I wasn't awake, but at the end of the day, it wasn't me who was walking around with a chalk eraser print on the front of their black silk shirt. He wasn't expecting the return fire.

however, if someone was throwing something malicious at me, I'd....

a....duck.
b....get out of range.
c....pull out my bat-slingshot and return fire. <j/k :p >.

You said you where an elementary teacher now :confused:
Is this dramatic irony in the making or what :D
 

Blindside

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My initial reaction is very complex, I'd charge the guy, hands raised to protect my head (sort of like roof block). I assume if I'm close enough that I can actually contact the person before he throws, that he will instead use the item to try to club me. Zoning off to his weak (left) side sounds promising, but I would probably only use that if I was just trying to get away and minimize exposure to the weapon.

With any luck its not Randy Johnson throwing the item at me, and I suspect it will unnerve the person doing the throwing. He's probably expecting you to do the "dodgeball dance" waiting for him to throw.

When in doubt, attack.

Lamont
 

Nightingale

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Originally posted by brianhunter



You said you where an elementary teacher now :confused:
Is this dramatic irony in the making or what :D

I taught elementary school last year. I have since taken another job because I could not afford to move out of my parents house when I had a full time job educating the youth of America, because the powers that be have declared that beginning teachers must survive on $23,000 per year. I decided my sanity was more important than my job at that time, because my folks and I were driving each other bonkers (I was 23 years old and they expected me to ask for permission when I wanted to go somewhere) and took a job working for a television station in downtown LA. I plan to return to teaching after I get my master's degree, because then I will actually make enough money to feed myself and my cats, and put a roof of reasonable size over our heads.

an interesting factoid... the state of california pays its prison guards almost twice as much as it pays its teachers. garbage collectors also make more money than beginning teachers.
 
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warriorsage

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Ahhh, finally someone asks a question that I really know something about. I can say one thing for sure. If you want to go toward the thrower, go to 9-10 o'clock if he's right handed. The most natural throwing motion for a righty is diagonal across his body (toward 4-5 o' clock). If you go anywhere toward that side of 6:00, you are in his sweet spot. going the opposite way will not allow him to fully unwind his hip into the throw (unless he pivots his body first).

A great ploy, I would think, would be to feint toward 3:00, and then bolt back at a 45 degree angle to your left. If you know a thing about rolling, I'd say do a dive roll at the same time, and come up swinging. Once somebody has initiated the throwing motion, it's pretty darn hard to change the angle of the throw, especially the height.

try that!
 
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