Stephen K. Hayes

[Rob Broad]

How big of an influence is Stephen K. Hayes on Ninjutsu these days. His books were very popular in the 80's during the Ninja-mania days, when every other month Sho Kosugi had a new ninja movie. What is Stephen K. Hayes up to these days.

 

[Enson]

he is still a great man and a international hereo in my book. you can find more info on him on www.skhquest.com . he has a new modern version of taijutsu called toshindo. you can find more about it if you do a search.

 

[Rob Broad]

Actually I am trying to get people posting with some substance in an area that is usually full of negative posts.

 

[terrancejack]

I am just an old Kenpo guy but when I occasinally went to a Stephen Hayes seminar in the late 80's it was always good info and grounded in practical application. I can understand his motivation behind doing his own thing. He apparently is not well liked by many high ranks in the Bujinkan organization but from what I have seen (this is an outsider's view) there are not too many folks in the U.S. ninjutsu community that can come close to his skill in teaching practical martial arts. I have always wondered why so many in the Bujinkan community dislike Mr. Hayes. It may be jealousy or an issue with his new approach. From reading this forum one would wonder what the state of training is in the ninjutsu community. It seems many are more concerned with making sure others are paying dues or lecturing to people about how badly the skill level is of others who do not live in Japan than learning pragmatic self-defense skills.
To answer the question, I think Mr. Hayes is still a dynamic influence in ninjutsu and in martial arts in general.

 

[Enson]

i place mr. hayes as one of my personal heros. i have trained with a toshindo practicioner and i believe his moves and techniques are great. very powerful. i have seen mr. hayes in action and his skill level is amazing. why many don't like mr. hayes is a mystery to me too. i think he took a concept and made it better in his eyes. now if its not original than i'm sure you can see him do the original stuff in the kihon classes. even though some of his stuff is not something i would do in certain situations but it works well for him so i won't say its not good. i don't remember what post it was on but it said something to the effect of "if you aren't studying under hatsumi sensei right now you don't know real ninpo." or something like that. i think that may be the position of many bujin practicioners. maybe thats why they don't appreciate mr. hayes. i believe that you use what works for you. i have seen mr. hayes... it works!

peace

 

[heretic888]

i don't remember what post it was on but it said something to the effect of "if you aren't studying under hatsumi sensei right now you don't know real ninpo." or something like that. i think that may be the position of many bujin practicioners. maybe thats why they don't appreciate mr. hayes.

An interesting claim --- considering, from what I've read, Hayes still does train with Hatsumi-soke. Then again, I could be wrong.

 

[Enson]

now i have to go back and find the post huh?

 

[Jay Bell]

I guess since no one else will, I'll fire the shot.

Anyone care to comment about Hayes being in the list of "banned" teachers to train with by Hatsumi sensei at Tai Kai?

 

[heretic888]

Anyone care to comment about Hayes being in the list of "banned" teachers to train with by Hatsumi sensei at Tai Kai?

Errr.... would you mind rephrasing that, Jay?? I got like two interpretations at once from the sentence.

 

[Enson]

I guess since no one else will, I'll fire the shot.

Anyone care to comment about Hayes being in the list of "banned" teachers to train with by Hatsumi sensei at Tai Kai?

mr. hayes is banned? really? need more input.

 

[Jay Bell]

Steve was in the list of instructors that Hatsumi sensei has forbidden Bujinkan members to train with.

 

[Enson]

Steve was in the list of instructors that Hatsumi sensei has forbidden Bujinkan members to train with.

pretty harsh don't cha think? "you can't play with him no more"... "yes daddy".(joke) what happens if they disobey? does hayes know of the ban? i read that hatsumi told hayes that he needed to open his own school and develope his own chapter. (don't remember where. i think on hayes' website.)
peace

 

[gmunoz]

I guess since no one else will, I'll fire the shot.

Anyone care to comment about Hayes being in the list of "banned" teachers to train with by Hatsumi sensei at Tai Kai?

Yeah Jay, if you're gonna fire the shot fire it! Don't ask it as a question whether or not someone cares to comment. Say what you gotta say.

I train with An-Shue Hayes. Not much can be taken away from the fact that he is the first American ever to train personally with Hatsumi-Soke. In my book, it wasn't until Hayes Sensei brought it all back to America that everyone else seemed to catch on. Black Belt magazine quotes him as being the "grandfather of Americian Ninjutsu."

Great teacher and mentor. Extrememly practical. His main dojo (Quest Center) is located in Dayton, Ohio and has many affiliates. Have never heard him write or say anything negative about the different ryus. He is an ambassador of good will for the martial art community.

 

[gmunoz]

Steve was in the list of instructors that Hatsumi sensei has forbidden Bujinkan members to train with.

I would imagine that Hatsumi sensei has asked Bunjinkan members not to train with An-Shu Hayes perhaps so as to maintain Bujinkan "purity" (word loosely selected). Hayes sensei now teaches To-Shin Do. Of course I wasn't there when the "ban" (wow!) was instituted so can't say.

 

[Jay Bell]

what happens if they disobey?

They will not be allowed back in the Bujinkan. He explained that it's fine remaining friends with the "list" of people, but to not train with them.

Steven Hayes
Shoto Tanemura
Fumio Manaka
Muramatsu sensei
Ishizuki sensei

Don't ask it as a question whether or not someone cares to comment.

I asked it as such because that's what I wanted to know. Simple.

Not much can be taken away from the fact that he is the first American ever to train personally with Hatsumi-Soke.

Besides Terry Dobson?

 

[Enson]

They will not be allowed back in the Bujinkan. He explained that it's fine remaining friends with the "list" of people, but to not train with them.

Steven Hayes
Shoto Tanemura
Fumio Manaka
Muramatsu sensei
Ishizuki sensei

Besides Terry Dobson?

my personal opinion is that stinks!:CTF: but i guess only the buji guys know the real reason why. and i have also read that hayes was the very first american to study and bring it back. don't know anything about terry dobson. maybe you can elaborate on him. where is dale and don when we need them?

 

[Shogun]

Dont think of this as a negative. Everyone on the banned list may still remain friends, and since the Bujinkan is an open organization, the may still train with him. It just goes back to the subject of Philosophy, loyalty, etc.
Also see this thread:

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15478&page=1&pp=15

 

[Jay Bell]

don't know anything about terry dobson. maybe you can elaborate on him.

Terry Dobson was the first westerner/American to study under Hatsumi sensei. He was a live-in student of Ueshiba sensei. He was the man that introduced Quentin Chambers to Hatsumi sensei.

 

[gmunoz]

Dont think of this as a negative. Everyone on the banned list may still remain friends, and since the Bujinkan is an open organization, the may still train with him. It just goes back to the subject of Philosophy, loyalty, etc.

I assumed that this was the case. I seriously doubt that anyone would be kicked out. I do agree with the subject of philosophy, loyalty. It makes sense. Actually that is what I was trying to elude to a few posts ago. Thank you Shogun for that clarification.

 

[gmunoz]

Terry Dobson was the first westerner/American to study under Hatsumi sensei. He was a live-in student of Ueshiba sensei. He was the man that introduced Quentin Chambers to Hatsumi sensei.

Pretty interesting how Terry Dobson is not mentioned as being being a student of Hatsumi sensei. At least in the things I have read. The only thing I find is that Dobson was an early student and disciple of Ueshiba sensei. After learning Aikido from him he brought THAT back to America. not Ninjutsu. Can anyone give us more info?