Speaking To The Head Honcho

[Rusty B]

You've already been beaten to that punch.

Yeah, but it also seems that you all missed my response - that is, when you walk into a store to make a purchase (i.e., you're a paying customer) and you have questions, do you ask for the store manager without even bothering to speak with the sales associate first?

 

[Steve]

Yeah, but it also seems that you all missed my response - that is, when you walk into a store to make a purchase (i.e., you're a paying customer) and you have questions, do you ask for the store manager without even bothering to speak with the sales associate first?

No, I did see that. I just don't think it's relevant. In addition to what I said before, if you are currently paying for a service, you aren't starting off with the store manager. You have an existing relationship with the school as a paying student.

Are you suggesting that the OP signed up for MA classes and demanded to speak to the head honcho on his first day of class? I didn't get that impression.

 

[dvcochran]

That's kind of a stretch. First and foremost, they are educators. Though they may not spend the majority of the day in front a classroom, becoming a principal requires years of experience in doing so.

I have to disagree here. Yes, a principal most likely started out as a teacher and most likely aligns themselves as an educator. But they are out of the day to day teaching and have moved into the role of a manager.
'Principal' means the head of an organization, ergo the manager or possibly director depending upon the structure..

 

[dvcochran]

Some people have replied that you shouldn't have to speak to the head honcho, that you should be able to speak to other students and/or assistant instructors so there would be no need to speak to the head honcho. I have this to say in response to that, why would there be any problem with speaking to the head honcho? Why should a student not speak to the head honcho if they're unclear about something?

***You said: people have replied that you shouldn't have to speak to the head honcho
This is 100% correct; in most cases you can get your information elsewhere. Conversely, a person should have no problem reaching the head honcho. For purposes of efficiency there may be layers to prevent everything from going directly to the head honcho from jump, a good thing for everyone; all the instructors in the chain and the student.

In regards to teaching/technical differences; if you are new how would you know there is any difference? If you have confidence in the program I don't think 'differences' would be of any consequence.

A personal experience I have had to endure several times; When I first started as a school owner it was a partnership. My partner was a black belt and I was a red belt when we started. On a couple of occasions before we started our partnership our GM grilled my partner about his technique, using me as the 'example' of correct. And I mean grilled him. Flat out embarrassed the hell out of him. And it continued to happen after our partnership began. It caused some real strain in the relationship.
Countless times we would go over things and he would ask me what he was doing wrong. To this day I do not have a good answer. Technically he did everything correct. But sometimes it just did not 'look' correct. I know it does not make sense. Doesn't now and it did not then but I know it to be true.
My point is things can get lost in translation. My partner also had a harder time teaching because he could not Show students how do do things as effectively. Made for a bumpy road and he finally decide to just get off the road.
So an instructor of any level can be doing everything 'right' and it still be wrong to someone.

The same scenario rings true in the teaching industry. Two people could graduate from the same college with the same degree and gpa. One can be a great teacher and one can be absolutely lousy at teaching. But they can both teach you the alphabet.

 

[Steve]

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[_Simon_]

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Good point!



(Sorry, I've just always wanted to say that when I see these)

 

[PhotonGuy]

That's kind of a stretch. First and foremost, they are educators. Though they may not spend the majority of the day in front a classroom, becoming a principal requires years of experience in doing so.

Yes you do have to be a teacher before you can become a principal but when you're a principal you're not doing much actual teaching, if any at all. So for a principal, usually its not their job to teach. It was their job to teach in the past but not anymore.

Okay, so here's where my experience may be different. My head instructor is not only the head instructor for our dojo, but he also has more than one location... and he's also the head of an association of dojos with members in four countries. Now I'm not sure if there's a lot of day-to-day work in the latter part... but I do know that, in managing the dojo, there is. There are days where he's not out on the mat, because he's in the office doing whatever it is that he does.

Maybe it's different in a dojo where the head instructor only has one dojo to manage.

Most head instructors only do have one dojo to manage. Yes there are dojos that belong to larger chains and there is a head instructor who is in charge of the entire chain, but most dojos are not part of larger chains and the head instructors of most dojos only manage that one dojo, in which case speaking to the head instructor shouldn't be a problem.

Right, but bear mind that the dojo has to be running in order for students to be taught, so the head honcho is going to have responsibilities that will take them off the mat.

And in such cases where the head instructor is off the mat, it will be one of the assistant instructors who will lead class. However speaking to the head honcho eventually about something you're not clear with shouldn't be a problem.

 

[PhotonGuy]

This really is apples to oranges. First of all, you're talking about a single, point of sale relationship when you go into a retail store. This isn't the same kind of relationship you would have with a business providing a service. That said, if the questions you have are similar in nature to what was outlined in the OP, then a sales associate isn't going to be able to help you.

But if you are a member of a gym, and have questions about the structure of the gym, promotion criteria (if they have any), etc, you're paying for a service. The gym owner is working for you.

To be clear, the business may give zero squats about your business, and so you may not get what you ask for. But it would at least give you a good indication that you should take your money elsewhere. Outside of legal advocacy, it's really up to you to demand the quality of service you expect.

You're right, a dojo is not the same thing as a retail store, as such they shouldn't be compared.

 

[PhotonGuy]

***You said: people have replied that you shouldn't have to speak to the head honcho
This is 100% correct; in most cases you can get your information elsewhere. Conversely, a person should have no problem reaching the head honcho. For purposes of efficiency there may be layers to prevent everything from going directly to the head honcho from jump, a good thing for everyone; all the instructors in the chain and the student.

You might not have to speak to the head honcho but there is no reason why you shouldn't, and in this case by head honcho Im talking about the top instructor in a dojo, not a CEO in a corporation. In most dojos you will have regular direct contact with the top instructor and if you're unsure about something there is no reason you shouldn't go to him. Why might you go to the top instructor instead of talking to an assistant instructor? You might want final clarification on something from the top instructor. The top instructor is the ultimate when it comes to final clarification on stuff in the dojo.

This thread has died down, Im hoping to get it started again.

 

[Buka]

Speaking as a long time Honcho, I’d rather new or prospective students speak with me personally. I want the student to know what it is we do and how we do it, and I want to answer any and all questions they may have.

I want to show them the dojo, maybe introduce them to a student or two, or an instructor or two. I want to go over the rules and protocols.

But what I really want to do is to get a read on them. To me, this is especially important with kids. I like to get an idea if the child really wants to train, or if it’s the parents idea. I want to understand if they’re shy, hyper, have been bullied etc. And I want is to get a read on the parent(s)

It’s a whole lot easier to help people that walk into a dojo when you learn something about them.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You might not have to speak to the head honcho but there is no reason why you shouldn't, and in this case by head honcho Im talking about the top instructor in a dojo, not a CEO in a corporation. In most dojos you will have regular direct contact with the top instructor and if you're unsure about something there is no reason you shouldn't go to him. Why might you go to the top instructor instead of talking to an assistant instructor? You might want final clarification on something from the top instructor. The top instructor is the ultimate when it comes to final clarification on stuff in the dojo.

This thread has died down, Im hoping to get it started again.

What are you hoping to get from starting it back up again?

 

[PhotonGuy]

What are you hoping to get from starting it back up again?

Answers, feedback.

 

[drop bear]

Speaking as a long time Honcho, I’d rather new or prospective students speak with me personally. I want the student to know what it is we do and how we do it, and I want to answer any and all questions they may have.

I want to show them the dojo, maybe introduce them to a student or two, or an instructor or two. I want to go over the rules and protocols.

But what I really want to do is to get a read on them. To me, this is especially important with kids. I like to get an idea if the child really wants to train, or if it’s the parents idea. I want to understand if they’re shy, hyper, have been bullied etc. And I want is to get a read on the parent(s)

It’s a whole lot easier to help people that walk into a dojo when you learn something about them.

Yeah it would have to be a weird dynamic if you couldn't talk to the head guy of the school you are attending.

I can't think of a good reason why that would occur.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Answers, feedback.

Do you think the answers and feedback are going to be any different the 17th time you ask the question?
Couldn't you just re-read the thread and get the same result?

 

[PhotonGuy]

Do you think the answers and feedback are going to be any different the 17th time you ask the question?
Couldn't you just re-read the thread and get the same result?

I never asked it, this is the first time.

 

[PhotonGuy]

If the other instructors were going to steer you wrong or otherwise deviate from what the head honcho teaches, the head honcho would not have made them instructors in the first place.

Seeking out the head honcho because you do not trust the other instructors is definitely bad manners.

The other instructors might not give you the wrong answers intentionally but have you ever played the game "telephone" as a child? That's why its always best to get information straight from the horse's mouth, or in this case straight from the head instructor's mouth.

I give a more detailed description in post #34, below is what I said in post #34

"Here is why its usually best to speak to the head honcho if you're unsure about something. Ever play the game "telephone" as a child? You might've played it in school or in church or in camp. Its played with a bunch of people where you form a circle and somebody starts with a message that they whisper to the person next to them who then whispers it to the person next to them who then whispers it to the person next to them and so forth until it goes completely around the circle. Usually by the time it goes completely around the message is quite different.

The point of the game is to show how things were done before Alexander Graham Bell's invention of the telephone, in the old days that was your telephone, you would give a message to one person who would then give it to somebody else who would then give it to somebody else until it finally got to the person who you needed to get it to. But often by then the message would be quite different and it would cause problems. Anyway, that's why its always best to get information directly from the source or as directly as you can get it. That's why its always best to speak to the head honcho if you can, so the information won't change the way it does in the game "telephone" and be wrong."

 

[CB Jones]

The whole chain of command/hierarchy is silly.

First that is the relationship you are in. You haven't joined a military unit and given people command over you. And it's a different relationship than a store/consumer relationship.

It's an instructor/student relationship....and an instructor/student relationship that doesn't allow the student to talk to the instructor is silly.

 

[dvcochran]

This thread was started in November 2020. Do you still not have your question(s) answered?
If you have not by now I would tell you to either make whatever effort is necessary to talk to the person you want to (the head instructor I assume) or find a new place to work out.

 

[drop bear]

The whole chain of command/hierarchy is silly.

First that is the relationship you are in. You haven't joined a military unit and given people command over you. And it's a different relationship than a store/consumer relationship.

It's an instructor/student relationship....and an instructor/student relationship that doesn't allow the student to talk to the instructor is silly.

Yeah. It is a weird one. One of the things that happens with us is that our instructors will look to each other for advice. So if they are not sure they will step the question up or even sideways to get a balanced response.

So it is not like anyone is going behind anyones back when someone asks for a clarification or a second opinion.

There are so.e great things you could import from the military in to a martial arts club. But I don't think bureaucracy is one of them.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Yeah. It is a weird one. One of the things that happens with us is that our instructors will look to each other for advice. So if they are not sure they will step the question up or even sideways to get a balanced response.

So it is not like anyone is going behind anyones back when someone asks for a clarification or a second opinion.

There are so.e great things you could import from the military in to a martial arts club. But I don't think bureaucracy is one of them.

I don't really get martial art clubs that aren't like that. It's obvious that not everyone knows everything, and we're all supposed to have learned humility from MA, so why not ask someone else if you don't know something? Especially if you're at a club that has someone who specializes in whatever it is?