Sparring Women

[jobo]

If asking questions is 'picking on someone' then you must have a very hard life. Does someone asking if you want brown or white bread constitute bullying in your eyes then? I assume you'd like us to censor our questions so that we don't upset you anymore.[/QUOT
you attacking the guy in you passive aggressive way

 

[Headhunter]

I have no emotional feelings towards the woman I sparred nor the situation. I have logical conclusions of her and the situation, but no emotional investment. We traveled to many gyms not just a few, and trained with them. There was a network of gyms that were either affiliates or friends with our instructor. We would travel to gyms that were both close and far away. We would usually hold up in a hotel overnight or travel to multiple gyms on one outing.

I'm sure you can understand the complexities of reading a post vs talking to someone. Tone of voice, body language and overall attitude isn't available to read in a post. Thus, when 1) a new user you don't have any previous experience with uses odd wording, 2) when someone you have experience with has been emotional and disrespectful before. It's reasonable to think they are being condescending when posts are written intentionally or unintentionally condescending.

No ones being condescending. This is a discussion page you post something people will discuss it. No one hear has been disrespectful in any real way as there's rules against it

 

[Anarax]

No ones being condescending. This is a discussion page you post something people will discuss it. No one hear has been disrespectful in any real way as there's rules against it

Yes, you have, not that I care if you have. You post reply after reply then finally share your opinion, which is what the thread was all about to begin with. Tez and I are having a conversation and you wish to drop your little half-assed passive aggressive comment after you have already stated your opinion. You even reply to tez on my behalf clarifying something about what I posted. Now you're addressing something I said to tez again. Learn when to bow out of a conversation especially when you have nothing else worthwhile to contribute

 

[Headhunter]

Yes, you have, not that I care if you have. You post reply after reply then finally share your opinion, which is what the thread was all about to begin with. Tez and I are having a conversation and you wish to drop your little half-assed passive aggressive comment after you have already stated your opinion. You even reply to tez on my behalf clarifying something about what I posted. Now you're addressing something I said to tez again. Learn when to bow out of a conversation especially when you have nothing else worthwhile to contribute

Okay buddy you keep crying and having a tantrum lol you're not going to like this forum much if you actually believe that was disrespectful. But not that you care of course and you're not upset at all right. I'm going to post whatever I want so deal with it.

 

[MA_Student]

How to handle it? Suck it up move on...what else can you do about it..it's sparring **** happens

 

[JP3]

Anarax, I've got a question which I can't figure out what's been posted so far. I may have missed it, and if so, just let me know.

In the O/P you described the situation, and how the thing seemed to escalate, with harder and harder techniques being exchanged, etc.

My question is this... Did anyone ever pause to ask a question, or to offer instruction?

Just curious, but this was an obvious teachning moment, definitely for your training/sparring partner, as for her sparring defense work vs. counterpunching people..... and maybe for you as an instance where your ability to teach could be improved?

I've had this type of thing happen before, and back int he day, if they wanted to just amp it up, I'd answer them, going to the same place they would and ending up hurting feelings, marking someone up, generally not being a win-win training situation.

Note: You can "lose" a sparring match and yet still "win" in the gaining of knowledge.

What I've found is a better way is to point out, right when it starts to amp up, that it IS getting more intense... pause just for a moment to make sure both sides are very aware that things are turning in that direction, and then literally stop for a short time, perhaps 10 seconds, and verbally recognize what's happening (she's getting frustrated as she can't make contact, you counter and pop her) and use the moment to teach her how to deal with it. Dealing with it could be anything at all which would improve what she's doing, such as recognizing (she may not even be aware) that she's telegraphing, or making sure the person knows where they leave an opening as they execute a kick/punch/technique, etc.... or how to move to set-up better... whatever it is.

So, did you talk about it at any point, or only after?

 

[Anarax]

Anarax, I've got a question which I can't figure out what's been posted so far. I may have missed it, and if so, just let me know.

In the O/P you described the situation, and how the thing seemed to escalate, with harder and harder techniques being exchanged, etc.

My question is this... Did anyone ever pause to ask a question, or to offer instruction?

Just curious, but this was an obvious teachning moment, definitely for your training/sparring partner, as for her sparring defense work vs. counterpunching people..... and maybe for you as an instance where your ability to teach could be improved?

I've had this type of thing happen before, and back int he day, if they wanted to just amp it up, I'd answer them, going to the same place they would and ending up hurting feelings, marking someone up, generally not being a win-win training situation.

Note: You can "lose" a sparring match and yet still "win" in the gaining of knowledge.

What I've found is a better way is to point out, right when it starts to amp up, that it IS getting more intense... pause just for a moment to make sure both sides are very aware that things are turning in that direction, and then literally stop for a short time, perhaps 10 seconds, and verbally recognize what's happening (she's getting frustrated as she can't make contact, you counter and pop her) and use the moment to teach her how to deal with it. Dealing with it could be anything at all which would improve what she's doing, such as recognizing (she may not even be aware) that she's telegraphing, or making sure the person knows where they leave an opening as they execute a kick/punch/technique, etc.... or how to move to set-up better... whatever it is.

So, did you talk about it at any point, or only after?

Thank you for your thoughtful question. The more of her kicks I checked the more power she kicked with. I was aware of what was happening, but I didn't say anything. She was a higher belt than me at the time, thus I didn't feel it was appropriate giving direction to a higher rank in that particular system.

I couldn't agree more, I learn the most when I spar someone more skilled than I. Personally I don't walk away from sparring thinking I've won or lost. However; post-sparring I assess and think what do I need to improve on? Yes I tried to speak to her afterwards, but that wasn't productive either.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thank you for your thoughtful question. The more of her kicks I checked the more power she kicked with. I was aware of what was happening, but I didn't say anything. She was a higher belt than me at the time, thus I didn't feel it was appropriate giving direction to a higher rank in that particular system.

I couldn't agree more, I learn the most when I spar someone more skilled than I. Personally I don't walk away from sparring thinking I've won or lost. However; post-sparring I assess and think what do I need to improve on? Yes I tried to speak to her afterwards, but that wasn't productive either.

This is one of the areas where TMA is weak, IMO (as a TMA practitioner). There's a reticence to give advice to those who started before us (the primary reason they are a more advanced rank). Remember this as you advance, and ask advice from those of lower rank who can teach you something.

 

[Tez3]

One example I had was with a Tae Kwon Do black belt that started taking a Karate class that I recently started. I was only a white belt

She was a higher belt than me at the time,

Surely though at the time you were both white belts? Did she wear her TKD black belt in a karate class?

 

[drop bear]

This is one of the areas where TMA is weak, IMO (as a TMA practitioner). There's a reticence to give advice to those who started before us (the primary reason they are a more advanced rank). Remember this as you advance, and ask advice from those of lower rank who can teach you something.

Some people dont want to hear it even if they have just been flogged. Giving advice after sparring is kind of an art in itself. Personally I mostly dont bother any more. If they ask I tell them. If they dont. It can be a mystery.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Some people dont want to hear it even if they have just been flogged. Giving advice after sparring is kind of an art in itself. Personally I mostly dont bother any more. If they ask I tell them. If they dont. It can be a mystery.

True, there's a lot of individual - and ego - involved. I just think there's a common inhibition in TMA (at least, as I've experienced it) against giving advice to those with higher rank. In part, it is rightly earned, as early on the advice most of us would give to even someone with a year or two of experience would be crap. Later, though, many students are capable of useful feedback. My technique gets better when students tell me which throw, takedown, or lock felt more complete or just barely managed to work. And likewise, when someone tells me the technique just overwhelmed them, who doesn't normally just give in to a technique because they "should".

 

[Anarax]

Some people dont want to hear it even if they have just been flogged. Giving advice after sparring is kind of an art in itself. Personally I mostly dont bother any more. If they ask I tell them. If they dont. It can be a mystery.

One important thing I left out, she's a dirty fighter. She tried to kick me hard in the groin multiple times, tried. When she was unable to break my posture in a clinch, she dug her nails into the back of my neck and tore into it.

Given her attitude and intent, I didn't feel it was a good idea to give her advice. In addition to her higher rank, it was an awkward situation. It was a long round, I'm recalling more details the more I think about it.

 

[Tez3]

We don't have room for more than one pair to spar at a time, it's annoying but can't be helped but it does mean an instructor is watching all the time along with the other students. Feedback is easily given as well as teaching people who want to corner fighters how to 'watch' in a way that will be helpful to their fighter. If one is ramping it up beyond the level decreed by the instructor then that too is easily sorted.

 

[Tez3]

One important thing I left out, she's a dirty fighter. She tried to kick me hard in the groin multiple times, tried. When she was unable to break my posture in a clinch, she dug her nails into the back of my neck and tore into it.

Given her attitude and intent, I didn't feel it was a good idea to give her advice. In addition to her higher rank, it was an awkward situation. It was a long round, I'm recalling more details the more I think about it.

Why didn't you mention this in your OP? It changes the whole situation from the one you described and turns into one that should have been reported to the instructor immediately. It also makes the sparring you did change from her head kicking you to a clinch fight, which was it?
Why do you keep saying she's a higher rank? If her rank is in TKD it doesn't carry over into karate. Is she a higher rank than you in karate?

 

[jayoliver00]

The problem with taking it lightly on women is a failing of the instructors and students, not the women. Most of them probably aren't even aware of the sub-par training they're receiving. Instilling in them a false self-confidence that they can defeat a man is dangerous. Not that a woman can't defeat a man, but those that can't will be in for a rude awakening. If people haven't seen this themselves, that doesn't change the fact it does occur. It's not sexist, it's just reality

In the span of 20 years, I've only knocked out 2 women during sparring. Is that good or bad?