Southern Tiger style

[Midnight-shadow]

I currently train in Fujian White Crane but we also do a bit of Tiger and Mantis alongside it. I'm learning the basic White Crane and Southern Mantis forms but there doesn't seem to be a corresponding Tiger form that I can find. Is there a specific southern Tiger style or is it just a branch of Hung Gar?

 

[Flying Crane]

What does your sifu tell you about it?

 

[Flying Crane]

double post

 

[Midnight-shadow]

What does your sifu tell you about it?

Not alot to be honest. He just calls it Tiger, but I'll try and ask him more about it next chance I get.

 

[Flying Crane]

Not alot to be honest. He just calls it Tiger, but I'll try and ask him more about it next chance I get.

Is he teaching any of the forms, or just the fundamentals? I guess I'm trying to understand what you mean when you say you can't find a corresponding form. I would think your sifu would be teaching that and would know the material?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm confused all together. A form doesn't specifically have to be called Tiger in order to have tiger fighting techniques in it. I have one form called Small Tiger and another form called Flower Fist, but both have tiger in it.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Are we talking Fu jow pai or Hei hu quan or a posture within a form that is called tiger.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Are we talking Fu jow pai or Hei hu quan or a posture within a form that is called tiger.

I know nothing regarding Hei hu quan, but I am guessing that it is not Fu Jow Pai (at least Master Tak's Fu Jow Pai), as that is meant to be a continuation of Hung Gar, rather than white crane or southern mantis. IIRC, while it is a 'branch'/continuation of Hung Gar, he does not teach Fu Jow Pai unless the person already has experience with Hung Gar, and he teaches his students to do the same. I would assume that by the point that you learn Hung Gar, you would be familiar enough that you wouldn't have to come on here asking about tiger forms.

Of course, if there is Fu Jow Pai not lead by Master Tak that I don't know about, the above paragraph is irrelevent.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yeah the OP needs to clarify what's going on. I read it as they are training three different systems together, Fujian crane, southern mantis, and tiger. If I'm reading that correctly, then his sifu ought to know the systems including their respective forms and he shouldn't need to come to a forum with a question like this. So I am confused.

 

[clfsean]

Meh ... I think it's overblown. I've seen sets from YongChun Village & their White Crane. They have sets with Tiger & Praying Mantis. Its not uncommon, especially in Southern TCMAs, to have mixed naming. I can't think of how many sets I have named Lohan. I have 2 different 5 Animal & 10 Animal sets from Lama Pai & CLF. But they're not even close to resembling the others. I have two separate stick/spear sets already with 5th Brother in the name but bears zero resemblance to Hung Ga's famous set.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, and don't worry, I'm just as confused as you. In our training we do the basic Tiger moves like the basic blocks and strikes, but not a form specifically for Tiger like we have for Mantis or Crane. I've tried looking for forms that incorporate the moves we do but can't really find anything. My instructor (he doesn't like being called Sifu) says we do a Tiger-crane combination which is why we have Tiger elements in our style, but I was wondering if there is another specific Southern Tiger style as well. In my research the only thing I've found that comes close to a Southern Tiger style is Bak Fu Pai (White Tiger style). Are there others besides this and the subsets of Hung Gar?

 

[DaveB]

Tiger-crane combination is a different but related style to Fujian White Crane

I'm guessing you are in Dennis Ngo's group in London? They use the name FWC for their group but it is a political thing. Check out the Nam Yang group website and
Paul Watts for more on actual White Crane.

As for the source tiger style I never found out any specifics.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Tiger-crane combination is a different but related style to Fujian White Crane

I'm guessing you are in Dennis Ngo's group in London? They use the name FWC for their group but it is a political thing. Check out the Nam Yang group website and
Paul Watts for more on actual White Crane.

As for the source tiger style I never found out any specifics.

My Instructor trained with Dennis Ngo for 20 years, but I haven't personally trained under Dennis myself.

 

[DaveB]

Well if you find anything about the root tiger style that makes up Tiger Crane combination let me know. I never found it.

The Nam Yang folks might know, but there's a history of animosity between the two groups so tread lightly.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Meh ... I think it's overblown. I've seen sets from YongChun Village & their White Crane. They have sets with Tiger & Praying Mantis. Its not uncommon, especially in Southern TCMAs, to have mixed naming. I can't think of how many sets I have named Lohan. I have 2 different 5 Animal & 10 Animal sets from Lama Pai & CLF. But they're not even close to resembling the others. I have two separate stick/spear sets already with 5th Brother in the name but bears zero resemblance to Hung Ga's famous set.

I was waiting for your post on this, I know nothing of Hung Ga and you know volumes, albeit in that droning vowel devil tongue , but just the same, IMHO, you are the Hung Ga go to guy.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Well if you find anything about the root tiger style that makes up Tiger Crane combination let me know. I never found it.

The Nam Yang folks might know, but there's a history of animosity between the two groups so tread lightly.

Looking more into the White Tiger, and the forms are very similar to what I do:

Could this be the root tiger style we are looking for?

 

[Midnight-shadow]

So, for those who are interested in the history, this is what my instructor told me. The style I practice (Fujian White Crane) originated from the Tiger Crane combination. This style was past down from Grandmaster Ang to Dennis Ngo, but then at some point Ngo split from the Nam Yang group and set up his own school and organisation. He wanted to come up with a new name and so traveled to China, to YongChun village. They already had a YongChun White Crane style however, so he settled with Fujian White Crane instead. In terms of the style, and the tiger elements, they are incorporated into the white crane forms that differentiate it from the shaolin white crane forms. We also do have a pure Tiger form called "Tiger leaves its den" but it is very advanced which is why I haven't come across it yet.

As for the Southern Mantis, that is just a little bit extra on the side, for variety and to show the similarities between it and the crane techniques. We only do the most basic Mantis form, and otherwise focus on the tiger crane combination.

So, to answer the question on where it all originated, apparently it came from Hung Ee Kan, one of the 5 Masters who escaped the burning of the Shaolin Temple in the 17th Century. While in exile he joined an Opera group and in doing so encountered the Tee family, who used the Crane style. Hung Ee Kan was enchanted with the style and fell in love with the daughter of the family, Tee Eng Choon. They married and together developed the Tiger Crane combination. Hung Ee Kan was apparently also responsible for the development of Hung Gar, so they are all connected.

 

[DaveB]

That's different from the story I learned, but I know that the school has some researchers who may have updated the details.

Many of the southern styles have a similar look and feel. I think until you see the advanced tiger form it will be hard to have any clue.

I always thought that the southern combination styles were based on the essential elements of the older northern shaolin stuff, but that's just an idea I had, not based on anything.

 

[DaveB]

History - NamYang Pugilistic Association

According to these guys the Tiger style was called Tai Chor.

Nam Yang have also changed their origin story since I last looked (years ago).

 

[JowGaWolf]

History - NamYang Pugilistic Association

According to these guys the Tiger style was called Tai Chor.

Nam Yang have also changed their origin story since I last looked (years ago).

That's very karate looking. (referring to the movement and energy of it)