some advice wanted

[bluewaveschool]

A little background on me - 2nd degree black at age 19, was mostly out of martial arts for the last 8 years, now 30 and out of shape and suddenly with my own school.

I learned at and am now head instructor at a YMCA. My school has not been affiliated with any org. since my instructors gave ATA the finger back in the early 90s for getting too greedy. They didn't want to put the financial burden of the fees certain orgs. want on the students and the Y wasn't going to pay for it all. From roughly 2002 to this past april i was mostly out of martial arts. I took a class here and there, could never afford to pay for lessons for long, and of course no one wanted to respect my rank because of not having a piece of paper. I decided to move my family back home and I get an email forwarded to me. The guy that had been the main instructor at the Y was moving in a few months, someone needed to step in, and no one could get ahold of the actually head instructor.

I show up in april, I come to class. I nearly walked out. The kids were horrible. I couldn't believe how bad green and purple belts were looking. NO ONE in the room could do a proper side kick. The 2 black belts that emailed me pulled me outside and told me they needed me to take over and fix things. I agreed but I call the head instructor, tell him that the guy he left in charge had let standards slide in the name of keeping the class going, and he needed to get his butt up to class. He agreed with out bad things were, we made plans with the other black belts that would still be around on how we'd fix/change things. He and I had gotten our black belts together, he had gone on and surpassed me as a martial artists, and he was going to help me sharpen my skills back up.

And then he had a heart attack and passed away.

School tradition gave the school to me, being the highest ranked black belt. I quickly got everything in line so that we didn't miss a single class. I think that becoming head instructor has made a huge change in me, a good one. But here is where i need some advice.

I have a great team of instructors working with me. All of whom are 1st recommended, for whatever reason never able to test for first decided. Can I test them for 1st decided as a 2nd Dan? I do not have anyone else higher than me. My instructors, one is dead and the other left town a decade ago. One of their instructors is still around, he is 4th degree, but he quit practicing long ago. Last I talked to him he didn't know what any of the forms looked like anymore. If I can't test them without 3rd, where should I go? Every school in the area is WTF. I do chung do kwan with the Chang Hon (ITF) hyungs. I certainly can't afford the money the ITF would want from me. The Y does not pay me. I teach for free, any student that is a Y member does not pay. The Y is not going to pay the ITF. I want to get my 4th at least.

 

[harlan]

Your profile doesn't state your location, but are you willing to travel to test elswhere? Have you considered networking with more reputable TKD/Chung Do Kwan and having them come in to test you?

 

[jks9199]

To acquire the 4th, you may well find that there is no option but to join an organization. There are numerous options that are less expensive than ITF. Several of our members here are much more knowledgeable than I am about them, and I hope that Terry or some of the others will post more details about them and their ranking.

In terms of ranking your own students -- I would suggest at least inviting the chief instructors of some of your neighboring schools (ideally in a similar line) to be present or be on the testing panel. You probably won't be able to do it for free; you may have to have the students contribute to covering the cost of a testing panel. Note that this does not have to be to the tune of thousands of dollars...

 

[bluewaveschool]

The local schools... belt factories. At least the 2 I am most familiar with are. We've picked off a few of one guys students over the years, they don't know a basic fighting stance or even a front kick. I have one of his former students now, white belt, and the kid knew nothing. But he had broken a board there. How do you teach a kid to break before you teach them stances? Also, I'm in Kentucky.

The class is coming along, next tuesday is the real litmus test, the first group testing for yellow belt that are strictly my students.

 

[terryl965]

Bluewave good afternoon, I could probaly help you if I knew what part of Kentucky? I also could get you in touch with some of my ITF friends that could help you along with your journey. I am curious to know more about you? Do you have a website? or myspace, facebook? You can PM me if you like and we can set a time to get you in touch with some people I know. Looking forward to hearing from you.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I do chung do kwan with the Chang Hon (ITF) hyungs..

Why do you classify what you do this way?

I have heard this before and quite frankly it is an Oxymoron.

 

[dancingalone]

Why do you classify what you do this way?

I have heard this before and quite frankly it is an Oxymoron.

It's probably something his instructor mentioned more than once. A lot of TKD schools seem to hold some pride in their kwan lineage, despite the original kwan curricula being lost to time with only a few exceptions.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

I am not a tkd teacher, as I am an independent karate teacher, but I typically am okay with a 2nd dan promoting someone to a 1st dan. Still, keep in mind that it will be a "house" black belt (which in my mind are fine), but that black belt will not be recognized by the ata, itf, and wtf. If you don't care that those groups aren't involved, then go for it.

I think your next major step as a teacher would be to join a LEGITIMATE group that can promote you in the long run since you don't have a person locally to promote you. I stress the word "legitimate" since you can buy your rank over the internet at hundreds of shady martial arts organizations.

The one I am a part of is the UMAA (www.umaa.ws) , but you may want one with a bit more of a TKD lineage to it. http://www.aikia.net/Aikia.net/WTI.html Is a group I have heard good things about. Also, the ITA by John Pellegrini might be a group that would work for you. Their site is http://www.dsihq.com/publish/the-independent-taekwondo-association-ita-4c5084/

One resource you need to get with is the Salvation Army's Blood and Fire Fed. Karen Eden in CO. is the head of it and that might be a good resourse for you to join. It is for people who teach in a Christian setting (ymca and Salvation Army) and Mrs. Eden may have some contacts for you. I think it is around $40 per year to join. Just look in the back of TKD times magazine or email me and I can send you the info. My email is [email protected]

Good luck and I recommend using this discussion forum for help. It has helped me and my school immensley over the years.

AoG

 

[dortiz]

Yes, but the CDK is Kukkiwon based and yet he is doing what he thinks are ITF. I bet they are also not to standard based on the schools unique position.
Nothing against the Op here but its going to be tough. He is probably either going to have to learn the current CDK syllabus (Tae geuks) or go ITF.
I am sure that there are plenty of folks who will work with him and not for the money but he is going to have to do some catch up.

 

[bluewaveschool]

Current CDK does not do the Chang Hon forms set, this is true. Some of the first masters to come over (at least from research on history I've done online, which i do realize can be shakey) were from the lineage of Won Kuk Lee, but they did the Chang Hon forms. Jhoon Rhee and Kang Suh Chong would be 2 examples. Chang Hon forms were from the Oh Do Kwan founded by General Choi. We can't trace the schools instructors past the late 80s, but I do know that the school belonged to ATA (founded by Kang Suh Chong), which used to do the Chang Hon set. I have an ATA packet from 1986 that was passed from one of my instructors to my father and I to help us learn the Korean terms. Since we do not do sport TKD (not that I have anything against it), we try to hold on to as much tradition as possible. The korean terms haven't been used in forever, I am debating bringing them back. Students do have to know the meanings of all forms which they have learned.

I realize that I will have to join an org to go higher. I'm just beinging to look, and there are tons of them out there. I am certainly too rusty atm to test, as I can't get my forms to begin and end at the same spot. I just don't know which is worthwhile and which is a certificate factory. My students earn their belts, they know since we don't get paid we gain nothing by promoting them to the next belt. If I am going to get higher, I don't want to go against everything I teach them and just pay for a belt. If I pass, I want it to be because I deserve it, not because I gave someone some money.



*** By saying that we don't teach sport TKD, I mean that we don't do tournaments and such, and don't teach point sparring. I don't mean to infer that those that do compete are inferior in any way. I am sure that those of you that do point spar can throw down if needed just fine.

 

[IcemanSK]

Yes, but the CDK is Kukkiwon based and yet he is doing what he thinks are ITF. I bet they are also not to standard based on the schools unique position.
Nothing against the Op here but its going to be tough. He is probably either going to have to learn the current CDK syllabus (Tae geuks) or go ITF.
I am sure that there are plenty of folks who will work with him and not for the money but he is going to have to do some catch up.

I'm CDK & have to agree with DOrtiz on this: the best thing to do would be to either align with CDK or ITF.

You're in quite a difficult spot bluewaveschool because you're trying to teach as you figure things out. That's no easy thing. I'd be willing to share info on my branch of the CDK with you, if you are interested.

I wish you all the best in doing the best for you & your students.

 

[d1jinx]

i know its a coincidense, but I know Blue Wave TKD from the upper north east.... they are Chung Do Kwan origins too, but wtf/kkw affiliated....

long lost cousins????

 

[bluewaveschool]

i know its a coincidense, but I know Blue Wave TKD from the upper north east.... they are Chung Do Kwan origins too, but wtf/kkw affiliated....

long lost cousins????

chung do kwan translates to Blue Wave School.

 

[bluewaveschool]

I'm CDK & have to agree with DOrtiz on this: the best thing to do would be to either align with CDK or ITF.

You're in quite a difficult spot bluewaveschool because you're trying to teach as you figure things out. That's no easy thing. I'd be willing to share info on my branch of the CDK with you, if you are interested.

I wish you all the best in doing the best for you & your students.

certainly interested Iceman, thanks.

 

[Miles]

i know its a coincidense, but I know Blue Wave TKD from the upper north east.... they are Chung Do Kwan origins too, but wtf/kkw affiliated....

long lost cousins????

We are all related.

D, you are likely thinking about the Blue Wave TKD Assn. They are an excellent group headed by Master G White.

 

[bluewaveschool]

sent you a PM terry

 

[bluewaveschool]

*****UPDATE****

I spoke with a school owner this morning about training with him. We talked at great length, as TKD is both is passion and how he makes his living, and me being, well, somewhat competition. He's considering giving me a 1 month trial, to assess what I need work on. I did agree to a no-compete/no try to steal each others student class. We also agreed that anyone either of us can rescue from the 2 other schools in my town (he teaches in a bigger city nearby) is fairgame. It's an interesting dynamic we are looking at. I told him at the moment I'd just like to work out, get the rust out and all that. Later on down the line we can discuss if he'd consider taking me to 3rd, since I want it to be able to take my BB to 2nd. He was a bit shocked that I don't get paid at all. I think the fact that I make no money, and the Y makes no money (free to members, no testing fees) made him feel a little more at ease on that. He also wanted to know if I was going to try and turn into a business, which would put me in direct competition with him. I am not throwing away 30 years of tradition to make a buck, even if my program is (and has been for 30 years) the unloved step-child of the Y. He is also independent, having broken off from ITA a few years back when they pulled an ATA and copyrighted forms. So he does do the same form set as me. We seem to have a lot of similiar views, and his fees are very reasonable for being able to show up to as many classes as you want per month. That includes taking some BJJ. Just a question of being able to work out affording it, since the Y doesn't pay me and all that.


UPDATE ON MY CLASS -

A bit shockingly, I've only lost 2 advanced belts. One teen that plays every sport under the sun, one little girl that lost interest when I took over and class wasn't playtime anymore. My first group of yellow belts is coming along very nicely. I completely trashed the one steps from yellow up, and the group of BBs and I have come up with some much better ones. I have one green belt getting close to leaving her twin sister in the dust as far as advancing, and my yellow belts are closing in on being ready. I've got 4 white belts looking good, possibly better that the first group that got promoted. And I've got a new group under them that is learning nicely. I have run off a few new ones after a few classes with it not being all fun and games, having to behave and show respect. My purple belt is finally starting to come around to how I want him to look like. Unfortunately, of the 5 green and up I inherited, only one has figured out how to freaking pivot on a side kick. One doesn't try (the twin that is going to be left in the dust), 1 complains that it's too hard, and 2 atleast try. We even got our smallest girl back out on the floor for sparring and she was fearless last night. First I grabbed a hand she left out and asked what'd she do about it, leaving an opening for her to step up and try to land a kick, being WAY to short to kick me with the lead leg... leg lead high front snap kick to my elbow. Then she said she WANTED to spar another BB. This girl was quiet as a mouse 2 weeks ago.

I have thought about a website/FB page, but not sure how the Y would feel about it, plus how the parents would. Considering making it an 'information only' page with pics of only the instructors and students 18+ doing anything.