Snobs

[Kirk]

These are the type of snobs I've run into so far in my kenpo
training:


1. The Belt Snob
Anyone in your school not like training with someone of a lower
rank? I'm not talking black training with yellow, I'm talking purple
thinking he's too good to workout with orange.

2. The Size Snob
I don't know about your schools, but there's a couple small guys
in my school that feel they have something to prove. They wail
with a lot less control and a lot more intensity when working
techniques. It's almost like they WANT to hurt a bigger guy, so
they go back and tell their buddies about it. One little guy in
my school wails on a 60-65 year old woman, because she's
bigger than he is! She begs him not to, yet HE'S A SNOB! When
I've worked with this individual, he's cracked me in the mouth
when working FLOW DRILLS! I felt like kickin' his little a$$, but
he's a higher rank than me, and also a belt snob. He was HIGHLY
ticked that our instructor told him to work with me.

2. The "I know better than you" Snob
Instructor shows us all how to do a tech for the first time, all at
the same time ... this particular snob interprets what was said
differently than others, yet refuses to ask for clarification, and
demands that all do the tech HIS/HER way. This is a common
practice among belt snobs. One example is when we were
told, "Hit your targets. You don't want to practice hitting someone
in the chest, when you're supposed to hit them in the chin. If
you practice that way, then you'll perform it that way. Now, this
doesn't mean hurt each other! This means make contact with the
area you're supposed to hit". To me, this means if I'm
supposed to hit you with a straight punch to the jaw, then my
knuckles should TOUCH your jaw. One snob felt that it meant
to press your knuckles to the jaw, and then violently push your
jaw back 2 feet. The aforementioned belt and size snob is also
an "I know better than you" snob, and is the one doing this.


If a snob takes on one of the three traits mentioned above,
they're easy to blow off or ignore. But the one little bastard
that has chosen to encompass all 3 (IMO) is REALLY getting
on my nerves. I'm nursing a sore elbow tonight because HE
felt he had something to prove when we were working a
Glancing Salute variation. I've accidentally hurt guys at the
school, and they've accidentally hurt me .. we all blow it off ...
but I'm tired of this scrawny monkey with an attitude going off
on me!

I outweigh the guy by like 180 pounds, and he's 2 belts above
me. The little bastard doesn't have enough skill (yet) to be a
snob! I'm half tempted to pound the heck out him!!! If you're
sensing a hostile attitude from ... GO WITH IT, you're right! Am I
wrong to feel this way?

 

[Kalicombat]

Kirk,
Ive had a similar situation before, some years ago. I think your instructor should pick up on this, and if not, no harm in calling it to his attention. Also, I am of the thought that direct confrontation is the best remedy for this. Take this little fella aside, tell him how you feel, and explain that lack of control while doing techniques, either incidentally or purposefully can run both ways. Let him know that you are not impressed by his immaturity and lack of consideration, and that if any "accidents" happen again, regardless of his rank, size, etc., that you will pummel his little a$$.

Like always, just my opinion,
Gary Catherman

 

[Klondike93]

Interesting use of snob. I've seen some of these that you mention as well.

There was a recent incident with myself and very large yellow belt at the kenpo school.
We were working on bear hug escapes and he was putting up quite a fight. I "showed" that I could scoop kick him in the groin but he wouldn't let up. Then I "showed" I could drive my heel into his knees, still wouldn't let up. Then I tried the move we were working on, dropping to a knee and rolling over one shoulder and have them go over you and land under you. He decided he would flair backwards with his feet and put me flat on my face. Well I did a face plant on the mat putting a nice hole in my lip and jacking up my left wrist too. I was a little ticked about the whole thing and got to talking to a brown belt about it as he got hurt too. He was a little mad then figured we should just let him know if he wants to make it a little more real we can do that, or we can go with what we're learning and no one gets hurt. Makes sense, and I figured it was my fault as well for fixating on making one thing work and not trying something else. So I learned something too. Sorry for so long but your story kind of sounded familiar.

Talk to your instructor and let him know there is a student that's some what dissrespectfull to others especially lower ranks. He might just tell you to beat the tar out of him, at least that's what we did in TKD when I was there. Good luck.


:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

You are starting to sound like me!:rofl:

:asian:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Kirk

These are the type of snobs I've run into so far in my kenpo
training:


1. The Belt Snob
Anyone in your school not like training with someone of a lower
rank? I'm not talking black training with yellow, I'm talking purple
thinking he's too good to workout with orange.

2. The Size Snob
I don't know about your schools, but there's a couple small guys
in my school that feel they have something to prove. They wail
with a lot less control and a lot more intensity when working
techniques. It's almost like they WANT to hurt a bigger guy, so
they go back and tell their buddies about it. One little guy in
my school wails on a 60-65 year old woman, because she's
bigger than he is! She begs him not to, yet HE'S A SNOB! When
I've worked with this individual, he's cracked me in the mouth
when working FLOW DRILLS! I felt like kickin' his little a$$, but
he's a higher rank than me, and also a belt snob. He was HIGHLY
ticked that our instructor told him to work with me.

2. The "I know better than you" Snob
Instructor shows us all how to do a tech for the first time, all at
the same time ... this particular snob interprets what was said
differently than others, yet refuses to ask for clarification, and
demands that all do the tech HIS/HER way. This is a common
practice among belt snobs. One example is when we were
told, "Hit your targets. You don't want to practice hitting someone
in the chest, when you're supposed to hit them in the chin. If
you practice that way, then you'll perform it that way. Now, this
doesn't mean hurt each other! This means make contact with the
area you're supposed to hit". To me, this means if I'm
supposed to hit you with a straight punch to the jaw, then my
knuckles should TOUCH your jaw. One snob felt that it meant
to press your knuckles to the jaw, and then violently push your
jaw back 2 feet. The aforementioned belt and size snob is also
an "I know better than you" snob, and is the one doing this.


If a snob takes on one of the three traits mentioned above,
they're easy to blow off or ignore. But the one little bastard
that has chosen to encompass all 3 (IMO) is REALLY getting
on my nerves. I'm nursing a sore elbow tonight because HE
felt he had something to prove when we were working a
Glancing Salute variation. I've accidentally hurt guys at the
school, and they've accidentally hurt me .. we all blow it off ...
but I'm tired of this scrawny monkey with an attitude going off
on me!

I outweigh the guy by like 180 pounds, and he's 2 belts above
me. The little bastard doesn't have enough skill (yet) to be a
snob! I'm half tempted to pound the heck out him!!! If you're
sensing a hostile attitude from ... GO WITH IT, you're right! Am I
wrong to feel this way?

Teach that twerp a lesson. He needs to show respect, regardless of his rank. (Especially when he's in someone elses HOUSE!

It's time for that person be humbled, for his own sake!:samurai:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Ricardo is sounding like me as well....... Arggggggggggg Texas is being converted.....

:redcaptur

:rofl:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Kalicombat

Kirk,
Ive had a similar situation before, some years ago. I think your instructor should pick up on this, and if not, no harm in calling it to his attention. Also, I am of the thought that direct confrontation is the best remedy for this. Take this little fella aside, tell him how you feel, and explain that lack of control while doing techniques, either incidentally or purposefully can run both ways. Let him know that you are not impressed by his immaturity and lack of consideration, and that if any "accidents" happen again, regardless of his rank, size, etc., that you will pummel his little a$$.

Like always, just my opinion,
Gary Catherman

Hey Gary, is that what you have planned for me in the future?

 

[Kalicombat]

Ricardo, LOL!! We can try to be civil,.....I think. Hey, the overtime is subsiding after this weekend, so we NEED to hook up. Call me or email me and lets do this.

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Kalicombat

Ricardo, LOL!! We can try to be civil,.....I think. Hey, the overtime is subsiding after this weekend, so we NEED to hook up. Call me or email me and lets do this.

Man, I'm getting worried now. What do we call this, The fight of the Golden Ones?:jediduel:

 

[Kalicombat]

Or like my kids refer to me, THE GOLDEN OLDIES!!!!!

 

[Rainman]

:snipe2:

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

:rofl:

 

[tonbo]

Kirk, we had a guy kinda like your snob in one of our classes. He was a green belt, and most of us were in the upper ranks of brown at the time. When it came time to partner up, he would always quickly grab someone lower rank, smaller, and younger than himself. He would do the techniques too hard, no matter how often he was reminded. Same with sparring. When one of the brown belts would partner with him for techniques, he would fake an asthma attack and bow out to go use his inhaler (that would take something like 20 minutes). He would avoid sparring "upper" belts any chance he got.

On top of all this, he would *constantly* "re-phrase" what the instructor had said about a technique when working with his lower-ranked partners. He would refuse to do things the right way if he thought he knew a better way.

Finally, the BB in charge of that class got to his limit. One night, he personally set up the technique lines, and put all of the "heavy hitters" in the same line as this guy. He didn't let the guy bow out for his inhaler (everyone knew he didn't have asthma--we knew for a fact), and made him start the tech line. We also then did sparring in a similar manner: A line, where each person got to spar people in turn. The brown belts were instructed to give this guy a little "incentive"--not hurt him, just let him see where the distinction in belt levels was.

We did, and I think he got the message. He stopped going harder on the lower belts/kids.....for about another week or so. Then, he just stopped coming.

It sounds like this guy you are dealing with needs a lesson in humility. If you get the chance to spar him, sneak a "good" shot in there once in a while. If he is so "cool", then he will take it and not gripe. If not, well......you get the joy of the contact, as well as the joy of watching him make an a$$ out of himself by complaining that a "lower belt" "hurt" him.....

If all else fails, light him up a little when working techniques. Chalk it up to your "being 2 ranks below" him. "Oh, sorry...did I go too hard on that rib shot? Sorry. I guess I'll have better control when I'm *your* level.....".....

Some of these guys, you just have to *show* the errors of their ways.....

Peace--

 

[Scott Bonner]

Contrary to everyone who has chimed in so far, I think that such a situation does _not_ warrant a violent response. The guy is a dumba**, but that is not a violation of anything I hold so dear that I need to fight about it -- principles, honor, life or death, right or wrong, and all that stuff.

The tone of your class is set by your instructor. He may be the source of the problem by subtly encouraging asinine behavior. Surely he knows what the "snob" is doing. Watch and see how the instructor interacts with the snob. It may be informative.

It's hard to make martial artists believe it, but sometimes problems can be solved with words instead of pain. Try talking before you try whacking him. Chances are, if you whack him hard enough for him to notice, he (being an immature twerp, by descriptions) will get pissed and fire back. Then, the fight is on. At that point, the best you can hope for is that the guy will quit coming to class, 'cause he sure as hell isn't going to learn from it. That's great for your class, but the "snob" loses his chance to learn and grow out of it. I know, I know, we aren't supposed to give a dangle about the "bad guy", but we still can.

Worse results are that you stop coming to class, or that your instructor kicks you both out, or that your instructor kicks just you out, or that your instructor keep both of you but sides with the "snob".

In any case, hurting him is a sloppy, uncertain, and undisciplined response, in my opinion, and contrary to what I see the martial arts as teaching us about the use of violence. But, luckily, there are lots of opinions to choose from.

Peace,
Scott

 

[C.E.Jackson]

Snob = Insecure

This will pass in time with some proper guidence from his/her instructor. (usually)

It is the Instructor's responsibility to deal with these individuals as the Instructor sees fit using his/her's years of experience to resolve the problem.

I've run into all these types as well. Sadly some have gone on to "very high" rank and are still "snobs".

Some will learn and develope charactor and some will not.:shrug:

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by Scott Bonner

Contrary to everyone who has chimed in so far, I think that such a situation does _not_ warrant a violent response. The guy is a dumba**, but that is not a violation of anything I hold so dear that I need to fight about it -- principles, honor, life or death, right or wrong, and all that stuff.

The tone of your class is set by your instructor. He may be the source of the problem by subtly encouraging asinine behavior. Surely he knows what the "snob" is doing. Watch and see how the instructor interacts with the snob. It may be informative.

It's hard to make martial artists believe it, but sometimes problems can be solved with words instead of pain. Try talking before you try whacking him. Chances are, if you whack him hard enough for him to notice, he (being an immature twerp, by descriptions) will get pissed and fire back. Then, the fight is on. At that point, the best you can hope for is that the guy will quit coming to class, 'cause he sure as hell isn't going to learn from it. That's great for your class, but the "snob" loses his chance to learn and grow out of it. I know, I know, we aren't supposed to give a dangle about the "bad guy", but we still can.

Worse results are that you stop coming to class, or that your instructor kicks you both out, or that your instructor kicks just you out, or that your instructor keep both of you but sides with the "snob".

In any case, hurting him is a sloppy, uncertain, and undisciplined response, in my opinion, and contrary to what I see the martial arts as teaching us about the use of violence. But, luckily, there are lots of opinions to choose from.

Peace,
Scott

Talk to the instructor. Talk to the jerk. If the instructor doesn't straighten it out ... Bust his chops. Most of the time people like that won't fight back if they take it once or twice themselves.

Barring the essence of decorum and good taste and an instructor who just doesn't have a clue... Find a useful school.

Dan

 

[Michael Billings]

Scott Bonner,

Extremely mature and good response. I think it is a reflection on the teacher when one of the students is a little out of control. It is up to the teacher, or school owner, to set the tone for the school. I have no problem with some contact, plus a little extra - and ask "Is this how hard you want to go?" But only after a couple of warnings. Then I think the Instructor needs to be involved.

It is part of what the pledges are about, learning how to be a teacher. Lots of people just don't get it. Things need to be resolved in private, away from prying eyes. Does that sound familiar? Then it is up to the teacher to decide on an educational physical intervention or if discussing the issue was enough.

Just my approach. It needs to come from someone representing the school, not a personal complaint from you if it is a systemic problem that is repetitive.

Ding-Ding
My 2 cents worth,
-Michael
UKS-Texas

 

[tonbo]

Scott, I can honestly see your point. I don't advocate smackin' snobs around just to prove a point or solve a problem, and I don't advocate violence as a first course of action. However....

In some cases, the individual in question *has* been talked to, and more than likely, repeatedly. If they persist in their attitude, it is often because their ego has gotten in the way, and someone or something needs to pop it before somebody "innocent" gets hurt.

In the situation I described, I will mention again, we never *hurt* the guy--we pushed his limits and let him know that if he wanted to continue, he would have to work with upper belts and those that were intimidating to him--that he couldn't always work with those smaller, weaker, or lower rank than him. That's just the way it goes.

As a kid, I was a victim of a particular bully. My dad's instructions to me were to ask him to stop, and be polite about it....but that if I was actually pushed, if force was used against me, to respond. My requests always went unheeded. Finally, one day, I was physically roughed up. I swung back and landed only two punches, both to the midsection. The bully never bothered me again.

Now, I'm not saying that you need to beat the guy senseless if he continues with his attitude. However, I think that a fairly simple rule ought to be implemented: You get as you give. At our school, you are free to spar the upper belts any way you want. They all start from the same point: they will spar at slightly above your level, enough to be a challenge to you. The deal is, the harder *you* hit, and the stronger *you* come on, the stronger or harder *they* do. It's a measure of respect. I would suggest that the head instructor in this case set something similar: If this guy wants to continue going harder than he should, then he should expect someone else to tag him once in a while. Not *hurt*, again, but "open the eyes".

Belt level shouldn't matter. Everyone is there to train, and unless this is "Cobra Kai", and the upper students have free rein to beat the hell out of the lower, it shouldn't be tolerated. If the instructor allows it, then perhaps that motivation should be questioned. At any rate, I would just say that the Golden Rule applies.......and yes, ONLY after you have given plenty of verbal warning.

Sorry to ramble, but I tend to do that.....

:asian:

Peace--

 

[Kirk]

He's been told quite a few times. I haven't complained about it
to my instructor, but my instructor (has limited assistants) is
often on his own when teaching, he can't see it all, all the time.
He did witness it before, and told the guy, "watch what you're
dishing out, what comes around goes around". One lady, about
60 or 65 is there for the fitness of it all. She admits to not being
able to take as much as "you young folks". I saw her at least 5
times on the same day, tell this guy "now I'm an old woman,
PLEASE go easy on me". He doesn't. I hate the idea of going to
my instructor with "this tiny guy is over doing it", but I guess I
will. I can only take so much, and he's really starting to tick me
off.

 

[tonbo]

Okay, so the guy has had verbal warnings aplenty. Time to take it up a notch.

Maybe talk with the instructor and say something along the lines of "There is this guy that is going a bit too hard (etc.). He has been asked to stop, and hasn't. How would you like to handle it?" Don't mention his name, if you don't want to. You just don't want to go off cavalier style and whack the guy on your own, as that can turn on you if you're not careful. However, if you mention the situation to your instructor, and he says it's okay for you to handle the situation with a "you get what you give" approach, then you can roll with that.

I would recommend in any case that you have your instructor's awareness and approval about handling the situation beforehand, more for *your* protection than anyone else's. The last thing you need is for this idiot to take things personally and sue you, the school, and everyone else for being out of line (yeah, it could happen these days, no?).

Maybe a special "after hours" sparring session? (Oooh, did I say that out loud? Hehe....)

Nah, really. See what the instructor says. Let him make the call. Then you can roll with it. Takes some of the responsibility off of your shoulders.

Peace--