Six in Ten Americans Expect a New World War

Andrew Green

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sgtmac_46 said:
What i'm saying is that western style liberal democracy is the right way. You disagree?
Yes, it is ONE way, there are others.

Or do you really think that the American way is the only way that matters?
 

sgtmac_46

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Andrew Green said:
Yes, it is ONE way, there are others.

Or do you really think that the American way is the only way that matters?
I'm waiting for the name of this great, self-secure, happy, totalitarian paradise you referred to.

It makes me laugh when people who consider themselves progressive, start defending despotism. Now I call that irony.
 

Andrew Green

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sgtmac_46 said:
I'm waiting for the name of this great, self-secure, happy, totalitarian paradise you referred to.
Cause the US is such a paradise?

No ghettos? Low crime rate? Religious Tolerance? Rasial Tolerance? Uncoruptable government? No riots?
 

sgtmac_46

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Andrew Green said:
Cause the US is such a paradise?

No ghettos? Low crime rate? Religious Tolerance? Ratial Tolerance? Uncorptable government? No riots?
Still waiting for the name of that totalitarian paradise that's better......
 

Andrew Green

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So your argument is, "There is no perfect example of any other form of government, therefore ours yours by default, even though it is flawed as well"?

Good job. I conceed to your superior argument.
 

sgtmac_46

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Andrew Green said:
So your argument is, "There is no perfect example of any other form of government, therefore ours yours by default, even though it is flawed as well"?

Good job. I conceed to your superior argument.
My argument is that liberal democracy is the best form of government going. It provides the most good for the most people, and has already been illustrated to nearly eliminate violent conflict when disputing parties are both democracies, as examples of one liberal democracy engaging in war with another are nearly nill. I'm waiting for a refutation of that argument.

Your argument seems to be that totalitarian dictatorships have as much right to exists as democracies. Do you even know what a totalitarian dictatorship is? Have you ever seen or learned about the horrors of Hitler and Stalin? Have you seen pictures of the holocaust, of the ovens. You consider THAT to have a valid right to exist? If that's your argument, you better do better then, "Oh yeah, well, uh, democracy is flawed, too." Yeah, but we don't round up jews by the millions and shove them in to ovens.

Between the two of them, Stalin and Hitler (with the help of Japan and Italy) were responsible for the deaths of over 100 MILLION people in the 20th century.

In case some wit decides to try and argue that Hitler and Stalin aren't indicative of other dictators, think again. Right now, dictators fall in to three classes.....Fascist dictators, such as the Baathist of Syria and Iraq (Saddam was Baathist). The Baathist party was founded during the 1930's emulating the Nazis and the Italian fascists....Marxist Dictators, in Stalin's image (i.e. North Korea....and Theocracies, such as Iran and the Taliban.

Massacre and atrocity are part and parcel of totalitarian regimes, as the fear of the citizen is necessary to keep order. Not the silly, whiny alleged fear that some leftists claim the media keeps Americans in through some bizarre, convoluted conspiracy....real fear, like when the secret police come and take you away to a place where men pries out your fingernails and toenails, and tortures you with a blowtorch and a pair of pliers until you tell them what they want to hear. If you won't talk, they start on your wife and children.

Now, I say again, is it those type of regime that you say has the right to exist?
 

Tgace

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Hmmm..lets name all the horrors commited under non-democratic leadership. I dont think Bobs server has the capacity.
 

Andrew Green

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It'd be hard to name ANY country that hasn't commited horrors...

How many inoccent people have died because of US military action in the past 100 years? US riots? Violent Crime?

You might not top the list, but you are definately on it. So once again it is point to the extremes and say everyone else is like that, so we must be right.

The US is not perfect, no one is.
 

ginshun

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I don't think that anyone here is trying to argue that the US is perfect.

What people are arguing is that the style of government used in the US and in most of the worlds free countries is pretty much the best system going.

You seem to be arguing that it is not, yet you can't name a single example of a better system.

Well?
 

Tgace

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Purges? Holocausts? Political "re-education" camps (killing fields)? Every country has crime problems,many have poor/homeless problems. Not many democratic socities kill millions of their own citizens because of political ideology differences. Nobody is saying the US is "perfect" however our faults are nowhere as bad as the track records of Europe and elsewhere over the ages. Actually its quite "clean" in comparison to the historical records they have compiled.
 

Andrew Green

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You also got a relatively short history ;)

But in that time:
- American Indians (Genocide)
- Civil War (Many of own killed)
- Riots
- Slavery


What people are arguing is that the style of government used in the US and in most of the worlds free countries is pretty much the best system going.
For them, not for everyone. Same as martial arts, some systems are better for some people, other systems are better for others.
 

ginshun

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Well obviously we are talking about the middle east here, specifically Iraq and Afganhistan I would imagine.

So please enlightien us on what (in your expert opinion) system of government would work better for the people of those two countries than would a democracy?

What exactly are you arguing for, theocracy or despotism?
 

Andrew Green

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ginshun said:
So please enlightien us on what (in your expert opinion) system of government would work better for the people of those two countries than would a democracy?
How about asking the people that live there, instead of deciding for them what is in there best interests?
 

Tgace

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They never had a choice in the past. People like Sadaam and the Taliban made them for them. Isnt that "choice" what democracy is about in the first place?
 

arnisador

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I didn't know the story of slavery in Canada, but it isn't surprising.

What's this got to do with WWIII?
 

Marginal

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sgtmac_46 said:
Merely pointing out past mistakes gives us no vision of the future. That the US made unpallatable decisions during the cold war, does not help us understand how to deal with the dictatorial regimes created by it.

Not sure how repeating past mistakes helps.
 

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