Sincerely asking...

Reedone816

Blue Belt
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
291
Reaction score
66
Location
Indonesia
First of all I'm not currently learning Aikido, but intrigue with this clip.
Want to ask about this video, is Aikido really teach the no touching stuff? or is it only to the branch the teacher founded?
The teacher here is legit, as he taught military police and president guards.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
31,835
Reaction score
6,360
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
[video=youtube;hG5xZeEhqcE]
First of all I'm not currently learning Aikido, but intrigue with this clip.
Want to ask about this video, is Aikido really teach the no touching stuff? or is it only to the branch the teacher founded?
The teacher here is legit, as he taught military police and president guards.

I am not an aikido student either but my youngest is and the answer to the question "is Aikido really teach the no touching stuff?" is no. At least not as if comes from Yoshimitsu Yamada, that is where the School Sensei's lineage goes to.

As far as being legit because he taught military and police, what did he teach and is there evidence to back up that claim. You want to see if his no touch stuff works, let him challenge a fighter that is NOT one of his students. My opinion of all of this no touch stuff is that all the teacher ahs done is to successfully teach his students how to fall down on queue
 

tshadowchaser

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Founding Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
13,460
Reaction score
730
Location
Athol, Ma. USA
sorry to say but some of what I saw on the video was BS. the student was way to compliant to what the instructor wanted him to do. there where some good techniques on it but much of it was the student reacting to what might happen if the technique was actually done.
Yes in Aikido the act of not hurting the uke is of upmost importance but he still needs to be touched in order for the technique to work. Yes the uke must be compliant and not activly resist when learning but to fall without being touched is not part of Aikido
 

Tony Dismukes

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
6,217
Reaction score
5,065
Location
Lexington, KY
Whole lot of nonsense in that clip. This can happen when students get so psychologically conditioned to taking dives for the teacher that they start throwing themselves without waiting to be touched. The sad thing is that both students and teacher can start to believe that he is tapping into some sort of mystical force when this happens.
 
OP
Reedone816

Reedone816

Blue Belt
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
291
Reaction score
66
Location
Indonesia
thank you for the replies.
As for teaching, MP 96-97 and President guards 1997-2000 (in US it is secret service), he taught Aikido techniques to comprehend suspect (I think).
As for why I ask is simple because I've seen the similar techniques are being done successfully to "unsuspected" martial artist, excluding the no touching part (haven't seen that one).
 

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
31,835
Reaction score
6,360
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Some here may remember the Kiai Master and his $5000 challenge. Which is a prime example of what happens when you start believing in your own hype

The Curious Case of the Kiai Master

The sad part is that students believe this stuff and in the OP example they are likely going to do the same exact thing the Kiai master's students did...IMO this is very sad.
 

Buka

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
11,753
Reaction score
8,418
Location
Maui
"Teaching military police and presidential guards" might look nice on a resume to a person who reads resumes and doesn't actually deal with violence. But...well, you know. I hope so, anyway.
 

hussaf

Green Belt
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
178
Reaction score
53
Military and police don't know anything about martial arts. This makes it easy for whoever is in charge of hiring a h2h instructor to be fooled by some fancy MA instructor's r矇sum矇. Beyond that, many times I've seen qualifications such "instructed Navy SEALs," it really means that person participated, or taught, at a seminar it clinic where one or more SEALs were present.
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
540
Location
NH
To me it seems like the louder a person brags about training the military, the less likely it is that the person did anything of significance. The ability to keep one's mouth shut is paramount to the success of any such project.
 
OP
Reedone816

Reedone816

Blue Belt
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
291
Reaction score
66
Location
Indonesia
That's the thing, he taugh them for a year and 3 years, and here, in military or special guard mostly they are well versed in one type martial art, good physique and huge ego. so when they were given some ma instructor they always tried to test him like choke him from the back without warning or when ask to punch, they kick instead, asking impossible scenarios and so on.
So for him to "survive" those years means he got their respect.
Also he is well respected from martial art community because of his openness to touch hands with other system, until now as far as i know his dojo's branches have open door policy that welcome others to come visit and "trade knowledge"...
Sent from my RM-943_apac_indonesia_207 using Tapatalk
 

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
31,835
Reaction score
6,360
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
That's the thing, he taugh them for a year and 3 years, and here, in military or special guard mostly they are well versed in one type martial art, good physique and huge ego. so when they were given some ma instructor they always tried to test him like choke him from the back without warning or when ask to punch, they kick instead, asking impossible scenarios and so on.
So for him to "survive" those years means he got their respect.
Also he is well respected from martial art community because of his openness to touch hands with other system, until now as far as i know his dojo's branches have open door policy that welcome others to come visit and "trade knowledge"...
Sent from my RM-943_apac_indonesia_207 using Tapatalk


You appear to already believe so why ask?
 

tshadowchaser

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Founding Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
13,460
Reaction score
730
Location
Athol, Ma. USA
Being respected, knowledgeable, and an expert in any art dose not mean that in time yo change and start promoting something else that may not be as legit.
A prim example of this is/was Dillman. The man was damn good at what he did and what he taught way back in the early 70's but he changed and started promoting his no touch years later.
 

punisher73

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
3,701
Reaction score
746
I watched bits of the clip and the "no touch" that was shown that I saw looked like BS.

I studied Aikido a short time and there was some "no touch stuff" taught, but it was based on reactions of the attacker trying to avoid getting hit. For example, throwing the arm as if to clothes line them and the person "throws themself" to avoid getting clotheslined while moving forward. It had nothing to do with "ki/chi" though.
 

Tony Dismukes

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
6,217
Reaction score
5,065
Location
Lexington, KY
That's the thing, he taugh them for a year and 3 years, and here, in military or special guard mostly they are well versed in one type martial art, good physique and huge ego. so when they were given some ma instructor they always tried to test him like choke him from the back without warning or when ask to punch, they kick instead, asking impossible scenarios and so on.
So for him to "survive" those years means he got their respect.

Just out of curiosity, what is your source for this information? Have you talked to the soldiers who trained with him or is the story coming from the instructor himself?
 

Tony Dismukes

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
6,217
Reaction score
5,065
Location
Lexington, KY
I watched bits of the clip and the "no touch" that was shown that I saw looked like BS.

I studied Aikido a short time and there was some "no touch stuff" taught, but it was based on reactions of the attacker trying to avoid getting hit. For example, throwing the arm as if to clothes line them and the person "throws themself" to avoid getting clotheslined while moving forward. It had nothing to do with "ki/chi" though.

Even your clothesline example is an artifact of training rather than something which would happen in real life. An uke who has received the technique enough times will know he is about to get clotheslined and may (consciously or not) start to throw himself to avoid the impact. In a real situation the attacker would either walk into the clothes line (if it was properly applied and they didn't see it coming) or else counter it.
 

punisher73

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
3,701
Reaction score
746
Even your clothesline example is an artifact of training rather than something which would happen in real life. An uke who has received the technique enough times will know he is about to get clotheslined and may (consciously or not) start to throw himself to avoid the impact. In a real situation the attacker would either walk into the clothes line (if it was properly applied and they didn't see it coming) or else counter it.

I agree that in some cases that is true, but there is a flinch response that isn't overridden in all cases. I used a poor term by saying "throw themselves", I should have been more descriptive in that they flinch back and due to their poor balance already, will fall sometimes. You are correct that it is not a throw like a trained person would do to avoid a wristlock etc. like we see in Aikido.
 

MattofSilat

Orange Belt
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
92
Reaction score
9
Location
Guernsey, Channel Islands
It's a bit unrelated, but I don't feel what I'm saying has enough significance to have a thread on it's own, and it's sort of related to OP's video.

I've been watching some videos of Martial Arts on You Tube lately...

I know they're uneducated in Martial Arts, and probably pretty naive in general, but I just find it really hard to hold back when you see some teenager who has no idea what he's talking about called all MA's BS, saying Aikido especially is BS, Constantly going on about how anybody with any experience in MAs should beat somebody until they're half dead just because they can, all spiritual and artistic side to any MA is nonsense and BS (While Boxing and MMA, on the other hand, are God's gift to the world. Every MA apart from Wrestling and Boxing in MMA comes from outside America/UK, yet these people are the first to call B.S on every other art), Any art apart from Krav Maga or MMA will get your *** kicked in a street fight, etc, etc. The list goes on and on.

What do you guys do about this? Do you just suck it up and try not to comment at all or do you not look at the comments or what? I find it really aggravating...
 
Top