Should you have to be Kukkiwon certified to compete at the world level?

[miguksaram]

Arlene did not have a black Belt in TKD when she made the Olympic team to my understanding, could be wrong though. She did train in TKD and learn to fight with the proper rules but she was a point person that was just talented enough to win with the rule set for Olympic TKD.

I believe Juan Moreno might have been another one of those talented point people.

 

[Archtkd]

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying I have the ability to do so, just that I am not required to pay someone to be certified.

Gebreselassie is a great example...he was the greatest middle distance runner (e.g., 10 km), but was not a marathon runner. He was paid to run the London marathon, as his first serious marathon. As I recall, he had only one 1 marathon before, as 15 year kid for fun, and ran 2:45. He proceeded to run at London the 3rd fastest marathon time ever! I think the analagy would be he was not a "certified" MARATHON runner (since there is no certification), but still ran the 3rd fastest time ever. Do we need an organisation to say "you're certified - you can enter this tournament"?

I think I understand what you are trying to say, but Gebreselassie was not a lone wolf training solo in the wielderness, in the American sense. He had to go through a very rigorous vetting and brutal training process in Ethiopia before he rose to the level of being invited and paid to run at the London marathon or any race overseas. That process might not be formal like earning a Taekwondo blackbelt through the Kukkiwon, but I can assure you it's tougher and more difficult to negotiate. In many ways, Gebreselassie and many Kenyan and Ethiopian runners are government funded projects at certain stages of their lives. American Taekwondoin and many athletes on the other hand are family and community funded projects.

 

[miguksaram]

Unrelated...various stances (when do you see a tiget stance in sparring), set 1,2,3 step sparring patterns, self defense, etc...I am not saying they are not valuable, but if I were traning for the Olimpics, I would not be doing these exercises.

Then you would be losing some valuable training methods. Let's just say this...if the elite fighters don't find those things a waste of time for their training, how can you judge what is and isn't a waste of time based on your perception?

Sure you realistically need to pay money to train in hockey. But my point is a player is not REQUIRED to be a member of an association to play in the NHL.

Don't have to be part of the NHL players union?

If a scout sees a great player, he can be drafted to the NHL. In theory he does not have to have ever played in an registered hockey team though.

That doesn't make sense. How can a scout pick up a great player without ever seeing him play on a team?

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Then you would be losing some valuable training methods. Let's just say this...if the elite fighters don't find those things a waste of time for their training, how can you judge what is and isn't a waste of time based on your perception?


Don't have to be part of the NHL players union?


That doesn't make sense. How can a scout pick up a great player without ever seeing him play on a team?

My point is just that most sports don't require you to be certified to participate in a competition. The NHL players union is once you're in the NHL. To get there, so long as you're good, you can get into the league. I heard a story once where a hockey fan said his friend was a top player from Russia, and was allowed to get on the ice for an Edmonton Oilers practice. He was had no skills..it was just a ploy for a fan to get on the ice!! I suppose if he was amazing he could have gone somewhere

Again, I'm just saying that very few other sports require you to play for 2-3 years before you're allowed to compete in a competition.

And if I were serious about sparring, I would be running 400 metres and 800 metres for training rather than focussing on my back stance or horse riding stance.

 

[puunui]

My point is just that most sports don't require you to be certified to participate in a competition.

Judo requires a 1st Dan.

 

[IcemanSK]

I recall meeting her shortly after her Olympic win. She appeared at Fred Degerberg's school where I was attending a workshop with Jeff Smith, Bill Wallace, an Joe Lewis. I see she ended up teaching for Jeff Smith for a time.

Anyhoo... I also seem to recall some stories about litigation where she purportedly had to file suit to be allowed to be on the Olympic team. Sadly, I cannot find any internet accounts of this and I have no further details.

And if I recall correctly, she went to law school after the 88' Olympics & got her law degree. I don't know if she passed the bar or not, however. I'm guessing her legal issues helped her point in that direction.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

For a little education I sugggest you watch a wonderful docu drama called Endurance, directed by British filmaker Leslie Woodhead. It features and is about Ethiopian Haile Gebreselassie, the greatest long distance runner ever born.

I'd love to see that - I haven't found any torrents of it though and I doubt Blockbuster has it.

 

[puunui]

I believe Juan Moreno might have been another one of those talented point people.

He was a Taekwondo practitioner though. He competed as I believe a yellow or green belt at the first JOs, I want to say in 1981 or 1982. I remember his black belt was monogrammed with the school name "Professional Taekwondo".

 

[IcemanSK]

He was a Taekwondo practitioner though. He competed as I believe a yellow or green belt at the first JOs, I want to say in 1981 or 1982. I remember his black belt was monogrammed with the school name "Professional Taekwondo".

And,, if my memory is correct. "Professional Taekwondo" was the school his grandfather ran.

 

[puunui]

And,, if my memory is correct. "Professional Taekwondo" was the school his grandfather ran.

I think his teacher was someone else. And either his grandfather was taking and that got Juan motivated, or vice versa. I know his grandfather was a Taekwondo practitioner too, who made it to at least 1st Dan.