Should peak physical fitness be a requirement for promotion to Black Belt?

[Buka]

Is it only about meeting the requirements of an Art's knowledge, history, techniques etc. and fulfilling the required hours/classes - or does a student of an art also have to be in his/her peak physical shape compared to where they were when they started?

 

[granfire]

A black belt is much more than a physical ability to do jumping jacks, run for a while and kick people in the head.
it's a mental state, which can in many cases overcome physical limitations.

 

[wingchun100]

Interesting question. There are couple different ways to look at it.

One of Bruce Lee's first students, Jesse Glover, was NOT a physically fit man. The last video I saw of him, he had a big belly, and I doubt he could last very long in a sprint race. However, I have watched him perform chi sao...and I would not mess with the man.

However, not everyone has the same values as Jesse Glover! Some teachers might think the skills/performance of their students are a reflection on their school, and how impressive would it be if you had a bunch of black belts who are getting winded all the time? I don't think someone testing for a black belt needs to be ripped like Arnold back in his prime, but I think they should be at a higher level than beginners. The more fit you are, the better you can perform your techniques. So if you push yourself to achieve better health to perform better, to me that shows you are more dedicated to your art than someone who went home and ate pizza after class.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I don't know about "peak" physical fitness. Very few people other than professional athletes will ever be at the peak of their physical potential. The rest of us almost all have plenty of room for improvement.

As far as promotion requirements, I would expect a student have sufficient physical fitness to perform whatever other requirements are necessary to demonstrate their ability. In BJJ, promotion is largely based on performance in grappling. If you're grappling with guys who are skilled, strong, and well conditioned, then you need to have some conditioning yourself or else be really, really good. Either way, if you can hang in there for extended grappling sessions then I wouldn't see the value in demanding you show off how many push-ups you can do.

 

[wingchun100]

I don't know about "peak" physical fitness. Very few people other than professional athletes will ever be at the peak of their physical potential. The rest of us almost all have plenty of room for improvement.

As far as promotion requirements, I would expect a student have sufficient physical fitness to perform whatever other requirements are necessary to demonstrate their ability. In BJJ, promotion is largely based on performance in grappling. If you're grappling with guys who are skilled, strong, and well conditioned, then you need to have some conditioning yourself or else be really, really good. Either way, if you can hang in there for extended grappling sessions then I wouldn't see the value in demanding you show off how many push-ups you can do.

I agree. To clarify my point, I don't mean they should be more fit so they can do push-ups at a demonstration; I just meant they should be more fit so they can perform their art better.

 

[WaterGal]

I think it really depends on the style, the individual, and on what you mean by "peak" physical fitness. I mean, I don't think you can or should expect a 60-year old Tai Chi student with arthritis to have the same level of fitness as a 20-year old BJJ student trying to be UFC fighter!

I do think people should be challenged during their dan test, both in mind and body. I think that they should be in good enough shape that they can do the art well for a prolonged period, whatever that means in the context of the art.

When we do our first dan test (this winter, yeah!) we're going to have everyone run or jog a mile before they can test, which I think is a pretty basic standard of fitness. So I think, people should have some level of fitness, but I'm not willing to say that martial artists need to be trim and muscular and be able to run 10 miles.

 

[skribs]

To put a tack on it further, what about people who...

A) Have physical disabilities (whether genetic or injury-related) that limit your potential? Should they never get a black belt?
B) Come into the martial art grossly overweight? They might have lost a hundred pounds and be in the best shape they've been in since middle school, but another student might be an ex-body-builder who's laxxed but is still able to outperform the weight-loss person.
C) Come into the martial art already a senior citizen? They are not going to be in peak physical condition.

Exercise isn't bad, but "fit" is a very subjective term depending on where you started.

 

[Pwen Arye]

Personally, I think physical fitness and martial arts go hand in hand. I don't see how you can seperate the two especially when it comes to self-defense. In my kempo class we do alot of HIIT before we get into techniques, and I'll tell you it kicks my but everytime lol. But, I feel alot better and it definately helps my kicking and punching.

 

[donnaTKD]

there is a lot of circuit training that goes with every muay thai programme that i've ever been part of

and being ripped, healthy and of a good physical standard allows the student to last longer without fatigue which again goes with studying muay thai

don't know what it's like for other MA's........

 

[Grenadier]

It all depends on what the owner of the school wants.

If the owner is OK with having a very small school where he knows that every student will be in peak physical condition, then that's his choice to make. Due to poor numbers, though, his school will most likely end up closing down, unless he's willing to sink in a lot of money into it.

If the owner wants his students to be able to demonstrate at least a reasonable level of physical fitness, then that's most likely not going to affect the numbers.

 

[Pwen Arye]

We are talking about fitness and not wwe beach muscles right??

 

[granfire]

I think it really depends on the style, the individual, and on what you mean by "peak" physical fitness. I mean, I don't think you can or should expect a 60-year old Tai Chi student with arthritis to have the same level of fitness as a 20-year old BJJ student trying to be UFC fighter!

I do think people should be challenged during their dan test, both in mind and body. I think that they should be in good enough shape that they can do the art well for a prolonged period, whatever that means in the context of the art.

When we do our first dan test (this winter, yeah!) we're going to have everyone run or jog a mile before they can test, which I think is a pretty basic standard of fitness. So I think, people should have some level of fitness, but I'm not willing to say that martial artists need to be trim and muscular and be able to run 10 miles.

I don't run unless I am on fire.
But I was reasonably fit before my little world spun out of control....:karate:

 

[Pwen Arye]

I don't run unless I am on fire.
But I was reasonably fit before my little world spun out of control....:karate:

I like running around the college near my house, great place to do it.

 

[sfs982000]

In my school they do a fitness test that a student has to pass before being approved to test for black belt. The test consists of pushups, situps, hand techniques, foot techniques, hand and foot techniques. You have to as many as you can in a minute and they compile your total score. I can remember off the top of my head what actually constitutes a passing test for both males and females. Now mind you, I have yet to test for my black belt so I actually haven't taken the test yet, with any luck I'll be testing this fall.

 

[Blindside]

Our kenpo school had as part of the black belt test to go through all of the forms, techniques, and sets (and do them well) for the system up to that point, and then be able to spar against black belt level oppoenents afterwards for a many rounds. If you weren't in pretty good condition, you weren't going to pass.

And fitness tends to be important in self-defense situations if things actually go physical, yes there examples of high level martial artists that were fat/old/crippled that smoked the bad guys despite their afflictions, but most of us aren't masters. Being fit is a good thing for life in general beyond just being able to punch/kick/grapple.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think that having peak physical fitness to perform your system efficiently would be a must and also a by product of good training!

 

[granfire]

I think that having peak physical fitness to perform your system efficiently would be a must and also a by product of good training!

but how long can you hold your peak?

 

[jks9199]

Is it only about meeting the requirements of an Art's knowledge, history, techniques etc. and fulfilling the required hours/classes - or does a student of an art also have to be in his/her peak physical shape compared to where they were when they started?

I've seen testing programs where I'm pretty sure the majority of the emphasis was on passing the physical fitness tests. When the time spent during testing and a goodly portion of the points earned on a score sheet ends up being 80% PT tests, and 10% skill assessments, with the rest spent on housekeeping or written testing (tests, papers, or both)... I think the message sent is very easily that the fitness test outweighs the martial material. Sadly, a lot of those PT tests also are not particularly related to the ability to fight or perform martial arts.

That said -- a black belt candidate should be reasonably fit. The testing process just needs to be balanced.

 

[jks9199]

We are talking about fitness and not wwe beach muscles right??

Excellent point... I'm certainly not skinny or ripped. But I'm more than reasonably fit...

 

[drop bear]

but how long can you hold your peak?

You can be fit and healthy pretty much forever.

Our guys will taper for about 12 weeks to be fit for a fight. People would benefit from having the same sort of lead up to a black belt test.