Sharing a story...

CNida

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I'd like to share a story to everyone. Just for the heck of it, not to boast or puff my chest out. At the end, I'd love to hear some comments about what you think or maybe what you might have done differently in this situation, either in a matter of technique or otherwise.

For those that didn't know already, I work as a security guard at a local hospital, in a city of about 75,000. We regularly are tasked with supervision and observation of at risk individuals who are either experiencing suicidal ideation, suffering from an altered mental status, intoxicated or just plain hostile. We are not equipped with anything other than a pager and a radio, and are not provided any meaningful training from our employer.

Sunday night, during my noon to midnight shift, the county sheriff's deputy brought in a drunk guy who had made some suicidal statements. Apparently, the deputy had gotten into a scuffle with the man when trying to help him and was required utilize the taser. Once the patient was in his bed, the deputy wrote the man a ticket and left him in our "capable hands". He warned us, however, before he left, that the man escalated to violence at the flip of a light switch.

Now as a private security guard, who has no more ability or legal authority than a private citizen, we often have to tiptoe a VERY fine line. We can not detain anyone. We can not do anything with a patient unless it is something that a nurse or doctor has asked of us.

At any rate, the deputy was right. The guy's switch flipped and he was immediately up an posturing. My partner, who is as average sized as a guy can be I guess, was trying to calm the guy down. The drunk guy got in my partners face and began making threats to which my partner repeatedly thwarted verbally in an attempt to calm the guy down and keep him in his room.

The patient was slightly bigger and more muscular than my partner who is roughly 5'10" and maybe 190 lbs. my partner could have handled him I am sure but when a person is that violent we never take chances because we are not trained nor are we equipped to deescalate things.

Anyway, drunk patient starts posturing. At some point he steps away from my partner and comes to me and says he doesn't like the way I look. I am 6'2" and a half, maybe 6'3" depending on who measures me, and I am around 250 pounds. Size favored me obviously but I never want to rest on that.

Patient gets chest to chest with me (slightly on his toes) and starts threatening me. Says he don't like how I look at him. This is where it begins. Normally I am very calm and collected, and have been able to defuse most situations by simply appearing to be apathetic or trying to use a silver tongue technique that I learned only through experience. Something didn't register right that night though. I lost my cool. Which is uncharacteristic of me. This wasn't the first time I have been threatened in this line of work and definitely not the first time someone has postured or got in my face. Even still, I told thr guy calmly and firmly, while I looked him in the eye, to leave my personal space and return to his room. He continued threatening. My partner was attempting to divert him as well but it fell on deaf ears. I told him a second time to get away from me but he did not, at least, not at first. But then he "grinned" and began to feign striking us in our stomachs, though he really was lightly touching us.

Now we can never go hands on unless it is clear that he will hurt himself or someone else, or damage hospital property, so we ignore him, and I tell him to keep his hands to himself or the police would be notified.

So he gets in my face. Again. Telling me to call the cops because he didn't care. At this time my patience as nonexistent. I put on my game face and told him for the final time that if he did not get out of my face, I would remove him from it. He didn't even get out so much as another word before I snapped and broke the unwritten rule: never let these people get you upset. I put both of my hands on his chest and shoved him, putting no small amount of force into it, backwards and into his room. He fell backwards and his elbow broke his fall on the tile floor. Unfortunately he got cut and began bleeding profusely out of his elbow. We are never sure if the bleeding patients have a blood borne pathogen or something that can infect us as well, but its a risk of the job. If that is a issue we usually take precautions though.

At any rate, after I have schoolyard-shoved this guy back a good 5 feet, my partner intervenes and tells me to walk away and calm down. So, I go inform the nurses to call the police because the situation was going beyond our comfort level to control. I return swiftly so as not to leave my partner alone with the guy. When the patient sees me, he immediately "apologizes" and says his head isn't right. When I tell him not to worry about it he flips again and attempts to bullrush past my partner and get to me. Which he succeeded. I did not calm down completely however, so as soon as he was within reach, I turned my body perpendicular to his; aligning my shoulder with his face. I wrapped my right arm around his head, trapped his right forearm with my left hand, and stuck my right leg out behind his. I torqued my body and sent him to the floor with my entire body weight falling onto him. The nurses were going ballistic. I am now in a position that I call a "half side control. My right flank is laid across his chest. I immediately go to control the head by putting my elbow into his temple and pushing his face away from mine to avoid getting bit or spit on. My right elbow is posted on the floor beneath his left armpit, with my right hand trapping him at the elbow. His right arm and hand are free and he is able to land a punch, albeit an ineffective one, on my left temple. So I then bring up my left knee and trap his free arm down. I couldn't see him at this rate but my parter had mounted the guy at his hips and was helping to hold down his left hand. We stayed this way until police arrived and medicine was administered.

Our aim is never to inflict pain but to rather prevent it from being inflicted. Restrain, not injure.

And that's it. That's what happened. Thoughts? Comments? Anything you might have done differently? Flaws with my technique, if you can even call it a technique?

Please share what you think.


____________________________

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens."
 

MJS

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I'd like to share a story to everyone. Just for the heck of it, not to boast or puff my chest out. At the end, I'd love to hear some comments about what you think or maybe what you might have done differently in this situation, either in a matter of technique or otherwise.

For those that didn't know already, I work as a security guard at a local hospital, in a city of about 75,000. We regularly are tasked with supervision and observation of at risk individuals who are either experiencing suicidal ideation, suffering from an altered mental status, intoxicated or just plain hostile. We are not equipped with anything other than a pager and a radio, and are not provided any meaningful training from our employer.

Sunday night, during my noon to midnight shift, the county sheriff's deputy brought in a drunk guy who had made some suicidal statements. Apparently, the deputy had gotten into a scuffle with the man when trying to help him and was required utilize the taser. Once the patient was in his bed, the deputy wrote the man a ticket and left him in our "capable hands". He warned us, however, before he left, that the man escalated to violence at the flip of a light switch.

Now as a private security guard, who has no more ability or legal authority than a private citizen, we often have to tiptoe a VERY fine line. We can not detain anyone. We can not do anything with a patient unless it is something that a nurse or doctor has asked of us.

At any rate, the deputy was right. The guy's switch flipped and he was immediately up an posturing. My partner, who is as average sized as a guy can be I guess, was trying to calm the guy down. The drunk guy got in my partners face and began making threats to which my partner repeatedly thwarted verbally in an attempt to calm the guy down and keep him in his room.

The patient was slightly bigger and more muscular than my partner who is roughly 5'10" and maybe 190 lbs. my partner could have handled him I am sure but when a person is that violent we never take chances because we are not trained nor are we equipped to deescalate things.

Anyway, drunk patient starts posturing. At some point he steps away from my partner and comes to me and says he doesn't like the way I look. I am 6'2" and a half, maybe 6'3" depending on who measures me, and I am around 250 pounds. Size favored me obviously but I never want to rest on that.

Patient gets chest to chest with me (slightly on his toes) and starts threatening me. Says he don't like how I look at him. This is where it begins. Normally I am very calm and collected, and have been able to defuse most situations by simply appearing to be apathetic or trying to use a silver tongue technique that I learned only through experience. Something didn't register right that night though. I lost my cool. Which is uncharacteristic of me. This wasn't the first time I have been threatened in this line of work and definitely not the first time someone has postured or got in my face. Even still, I told thr guy calmly and firmly, while I looked him in the eye, to leave my personal space and return to his room. He continued threatening. My partner was attempting to divert him as well but it fell on deaf ears. I told him a second time to get away from me but he did not, at least, not at first. But then he "grinned" and began to feign striking us in our stomachs, though he really was lightly touching us.

Now we can never go hands on unless it is clear that he will hurt himself or someone else, or damage hospital property, so we ignore him, and I tell him to keep his hands to himself or the police would be notified.

So he gets in my face. Again. Telling me to call the cops because he didn't care. At this time my patience as nonexistent. I put on my game face and told him for the final time that if he did not get out of my face, I would remove him from it. He didn't even get out so much as another word before I snapped and broke the unwritten rule: never let these people get you upset. I put both of my hands on his chest and shoved him, putting no small amount of force into it, backwards and into his room. He fell backwards and his elbow broke his fall on the tile floor. Unfortunately he got cut and began bleeding profusely out of his elbow. We are never sure if the bleeding patients have a blood borne pathogen or something that can infect us as well, but its a risk of the job. If that is a issue we usually take precautions though.

At any rate, after I have schoolyard-shoved this guy back a good 5 feet, my partner intervenes and tells me to walk away and calm down. So, I go inform the nurses to call the police because the situation was going beyond our comfort level to control. I return swiftly so as not to leave my partner alone with the guy. When the patient sees me, he immediately "apologizes" and says his head isn't right. When I tell him not to worry about it he flips again and attempts to bullrush past my partner and get to me. Which he succeeded. I did not calm down completely however, so as soon as he was within reach, I turned my body perpendicular to his; aligning my shoulder with his face. I wrapped my right arm around his head, trapped his right forearm with my left hand, and stuck my right leg out behind his. I torqued my body and sent him to the floor with my entire body weight falling onto him. The nurses were going ballistic. I am now in a position that I call a "half side control. My right flank is laid across his chest. I immediately go to control the head by putting my elbow into his temple and pushing his face away from mine to avoid getting bit or spit on. My right elbow is posted on the floor beneath his left armpit, with my right hand trapping him at the elbow. His right arm and hand are free and he is able to land a punch, albeit an ineffective one, on my left temple. So I then bring up my left knee and trap his free arm down. I couldn't see him at this rate but my parter had mounted the guy at his hips and was helping to hold down his left hand. We stayed this way until police arrived and medicine was administered.

Our aim is never to inflict pain but to rather prevent it from being inflicted. Restrain, not injure.

And that's it. That's what happened. Thoughts? Comments? Anything you might have done differently? Flaws with my technique, if you can even call it a technique?

Please share what you think.


____________________________

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens."

Well, first off, I'm glad you're ok, given the situation. As for the situation...am I safe to assume that you're employeed by the hospital, and not a private security firm, hired by the hospital? In either case, given the nature of the people that you have to deal with, I would highly suggest making sure that you find out the rules/regulations as to what you can/can't do. A good friend and training partner of mine, retired from a psychiatric hospital. He has trained in various arts, but hosptial policy dictates what should be done in certain situations. Of course, during certain incidents, he has done/used things, that were techincally not 'hospital approved' but was cautious with what he did and how he wrote up what he did, after the fact. When I worked for the Dept. of Corrections, we had 'self defense' training, which I personally thought would cause more harm to the person doing it..lol..and was thankful that I had other training to fall back on. Of course, as I said, that doesnt give you the green light to KO the guy with a jump spinning back kick..lol....tempting as it may be. In most situations, "Big Brother" is always watching, so it's easy to get jammed up.

I would suggest talking to your employer about getting some training, both in verbal de-escalation as well as SD training...basically something that will allow you to restrain, rather than trade punches. Now, this isn't to say that you couldn't trade blows, but as I said, IMHO, it's very important to tread with caution, as you can open yourself as well as the hospital, to legal issues. I'm inclined to lean towards the grappling arts, such as BJJ. I say that, because that is an art that will allow you to get control of someone, either standing or on the ground, while someone aids you in restraining the person.

In the city that I work in, we have a hospital, which of course has security officers. They've called us many times, for police assistance, in dealing with unruly patients. I am not sure what their abilities are, what tools they have, etc. In other words, I don't know if they carry OC, handcuffs, what their rules are for dealing with out of control patients, etc.

What would I have done? Given this guys posturing, I would've had someone call the cops back. If this guy was that out of control, restraining him to a bed, would also be another good idea. Let him calm down, sober up, in a laying position. Not sure if they have them at the hospital, but at the PD, they have a padded cell, so the unruly prisoners are moved there, if they get too out of control. I'd also suggest keeping a bladed stance, with hands up in a non threatening manner, but in a way that'll offer some defense, should the guy step forward, take a swing, etc. As far as engaging physically, as I said, I'd find out what you can and can't do. I certainly wouldn't suggest letting the guy hit you though. Funny you mention that you shoved him. There was an incident with a police officer here in Ct. He was dealing with a handcuffed drunk, who was in a cell. The guy advanced on the cop, and the cop shoved him. Because this guy was so drunk, he lost his balance, fell, and hit his head. The cop didn't do anything to offer aid, and in fact it was a dispatcher, who saw the guy on the camera, and called an ambulance. Ultimately, the cop was terminated. There were other underlying things that led up to his termination, but the push was a part of it.

I hope this helped. Be safe and good luck with things. Dealing with people like that, is not a fun or easy task.
 

Instructor

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Also some martial arts are better suited at dealing with gray hostility areas like this than others. I've done a little bouncing on the side over the years and that's a skillset unto itself. Also might suggest setting up essentially an empty room with an observation window. Often drunks only get hostile when their's somebody to get hostile against, in an empty room they just make a lot of noise or sleep it off.
 
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ballen0351

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you exercised more restraint then I would have. You fake a punch at me and actually make contact no matter how light that's an attack and I'm reacting appropriately.
Do they not restrain people to the beds there? Our hospital has cells for the violent suicidal folks. Its just like a jail cell but has a hospital bed in it. I know not all hospitals have that but I've also helped tie people to the beds. If I bring a violent person onto the hospital and tell the nurse hey we had to fight and tase this guy 9 times out of 10 they have him strapped to the bed before we even leave.
 

DennisBreene

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you exercised more restraint then I would have. You fake a punch at me and actually make contact no matter how light that's an attack and I'm reacting appropriately.
Do they not restrain people to the beds there? Our hospital has cells for the violent suicidal folks. Its just like a jail cell but has a hospital bed in it. I know not all hospitals have that but I've also helped tie people to the beds. If I bring a violent person onto the hospital and tell the nurse hey we had to fight and tase this guy 9 times out of 10 they have him strapped to the bed before we even leave.
Restraints require a physicians order typically and there are guidelines as to when and how they may be used. Hindsight being 20/20; it may have been wise to call LEO back up and request restraint but these things can happen in the blink of an eye. When your job is to protect the patient, yourself and other staff and patients without injury you may be in a no win situation. The advice about discussing such scenarios with hospital authorities and knowing their policies and procedures is spot on. Unfortunately, you can end up the scape goat for attempting to do your job in these situations even when you keep your temper and do everything by the book.
 

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​What has your employer said thus far?
 
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CNida

CNida

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​What has your employer said thus far?

Well the ER nurses told us that night that its much better that we handled it that way as opposed to letting him walk all over us. Charge nurse said if it wasn't one of us it would have been her or one of her nurses, which is right.

My employer is actually a third party company by the name of Securitas. They are like the McDonalds of private security if thats makes any sense to you. It is, by far, the worst and most inconsiderate company I have worked for. If you aren't able to work 80+ hours a week to make them money then you aren't worth the paltry money they pay you.

Two years doing what I do at the hospital and probably like the umpteenth time I have had to get physical with someone. My company charges the hospital somewhere around $20 per hour for me to be there, of which I get $9.50.

That said, I enjoy the hospital, but not working through a third party like I do. When I told my branch manager what happened that night she flipped on me, and wanted me to write statements as well as my usual incident report.


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granfire

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I keep thinking there are reasons to how we react under pressure. Something was off, it wasn't your first rodeo, but you reacted differently. Obviously your customer was of the sneaky kind....

Move to Germany, become a nurse.

I am only half kidding.
My mom used to head the nursing staff of a very large mental hospital. She sweet talked the police to teach her staff how to handle situations like this. They got a lot of rowdy customers in, late at night or during peak times involving celebrations with alcohol, etc...

But of course the legal basis is different. Do what you have to do to secure the patient, of course without breaking him/her, restrain and shoot them up with Haldol I suppose, or something similar until 'reason' returns, the delirium wears off, etc.

I am glad you are alright.
I am sorry the company does not provide you training. Maybe that is something you can kick up to hospital administration. it's in their best interest as well.

Oh...in my mom's case, the cops were only too happy to hand off the trouble makers to hospital staff. For some reason my rather mild mannered mom enjoyed those moments. :rolleyes:
 

ballen0351

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Sounds like you may need to find a new job getting InTrouble for protecting yourself for 9 bucks an hour isn't worth it to me.
 

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