Shaolin Kempo - Poking the Bear: Suggest improvements for the combinations

[Matt]

I had sparred many Kempo guys in the past. They all liked to use horse stance with leading arm dropping down (protect groin) , with back hand covered the face. Any straight line punch can be blocked by their circular ridge hand attack. It was very effective strategy - expose your head to bait for straight punch, you then use your circular punch to intersect it.

The 'Philly Shell' boxing guard is really effective.

 

[Kung Fu Wang163 193]

The 'Philly Shell' boxing guard is really effective.

I like the long guard better than the short guard. It's better to fight in your opponent's territory than to fight in your own territory. When you put your fist in front of your opponent's face, your opponent's fist has to pass your arm in order to reach to your head.

 

[isshinryuronin52 52]

I like the long guard better than the short guard. It's better to fight in your opponent's territory than to fight in your own territory. When you put your fist in front of your opponent's face, your opponent's fist has to pass your arm in order to reach to your head.

While this is true, it's equally true that a short guard is harder to pass, stronger as it's closer to one's core and is less of a target for attacks against it. I think it depends on your personal taste and style. Also, one or the other may be less comfortable for the opponent to deal with. IMO, there's no single answer as to which is best - it depends.

 

[Kung Fu Wang163 193]

I think it depends on your personal taste and style.

If you intend to

- knock your opponent down, a short guard will give you longer power generation path.
- wrap your opponent's arm, a long guard will give you more arms contact opportunity.

Today when I walked on the beach, I just asked myself, "Is dodging a valid combat skill?"

My opponent punches at my head, I dodge and get away. I have just avoided a temporary problem. But my opponent will keep punching my head again, so why do I want to waste my effort to dodge a punch for?

If I can wrap around my opponent's arm/arms, the striking game will end and the grappling game will start. That seems to be a more logical solution. It solves a "head punching" problem once for all.

IMO, if my opponent can no longer punch to my head, my chance of survival can be increased big time.

 

[drop bear2 1]

I gave a take on Shaolin Kempo combination two, and some people got a little salty about it in the YouTube! comments.

The sweep you did is cooler than the original one.

Otherwise throw the upper cut elbow. Which then puts your hand at your head to stop the punch

 

[drop bear2 1]

I've recently (almost) completed the Shaolin Kempo Technique Archive, and now I'm embarking on a quest to suggest tweaks to tune up the combinations. Every video has the same comments - "They wouldn't just stand there with their fist out" or "You'd just get punched in the face if that wasn't your student" and I think they are right. Let's offer our adjustments that keep the spirit of the technique while solving some of the problematic elements.

Here's the kind of problem I am describing and a potential solution:

just block the left hand and return with a right hand slap.

 

[punisher734]

Tommy Karate: SKK Combo 1

I think this video addresses some of your concerns. The man in the video also used to be a kickboxing champion, so he can address a skilled striker.

I also think its important to remember that the SKK combos are templates for an idea. Yes, they are "plug and play", but they also allow for variables in your study. For example, "why" isn't the right hand doing anything? Notice in the video the right hand is in a "high guard" position and ready to deal with a follow up punch from the attacker.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf162 27]

The horse stance / hands down thing is apparently an East Coast phenomenon - that's how all of the schools I trained in taught them. The justification was that it was the worst place to start from, so anything else would be easier. I'm not sure it's great strategy, but it's a throwback to the early days.

Weird, also from the east coast (NY) and the three schools I trained in taught to start from pine tree. The logic was that if you're going to end up fighting someone, when you start seeing the signs you should sneakily already be trying to get into a pine tree stance.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf162 27]

If a combo doesn't make sense to start with, it will still make no sense no matter how you may try to adjust it.

When you enter your opponent's front door, if you use one arm to block your opponent's

- right punch, his left punch will attack you.
- left punch, his right punch will attack you.

How do you solve this problem? I just don't believe the solution exist.

Not necessarily for this technique, but there is a solution. Footwork. If you block while stepping diagonal around them, ideally towards the side your are blocking, it makes a punch with the other arm significantly tougher. Alternatively, instead of using both hands to block, one hand blocks while the other (or a foot) strikes at the same time. By the time they have registered they are blocked and throw out another punch, they will already be hit with your own strike.

 

[Matt]

Tommy Karate: SKK Combo 1

I think this video addresses some of your concerns. The man in the video also used to be a kickboxing champion, so he can address a skilled striker.

I also think its important to remember that the SKK combos are templates for an idea. Yes, they are "plug and play", but they also allow for variables in your study. For example, "why" isn't the right hand doing anything? Notice in the video the right hand is in a "high guard" position and ready to deal with a follow up punch from the attacker.

As luck would have it, I hopefully will be chatting with Tom Cambell next month about the combinations. I'm really looking forward to it.

 

[Matt]

Weird, also from the east coast (NY) and the three schools I trained in taught to start from pine tree. The logic was that if you're going to end up fighting someone, when you start seeing the signs you should sneakily already be trying to get into a pine tree stance.

That's really funny - I see some NY folks doing it as you describe (Like Tommy Karate) while us MA and CT folks did it hands at elbows. Must be a difference in regional managers.

 

[Matt]

If I can wrap around my opponent's arm/arms, the striking game will end and the grappling game will start. That seems to be a more logical solution. It solves a "head punching" problem once for all.

IMO, if my opponent can no longer punch to my head, my chance of survival can be increased big time.

You're not wrong. For my purposes, I'm trying to work in a set of constraints, but your point is completely valid.

 

[Matt]

Now I'm taking a crack at combinations 3 and 5 in Shaolin Kempo. 3 doesn't actually need much adjusting if at all, but I do go on a bit about 5.

 

[Kung Fu Wang163 193]

Now I'm taking a crack at combinations 3 and 5 in Shaolin Kempo. 3 doesn't actually need much adjusting if at all, but I do go on a bit about 5.

Your combo 3 is "side door entering" that you use your opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm. You don't have to worry about your opponent's left arm that much.

Is there any reason that you let your opponent to punch you first? Do you have any combos that you punch your opponent first?

When you respond to your opponent's attack, you may fall into his trap. Will it be better to let your opponent to fall into your trap instead?

In this video, Bruce Lee uses right punch to bait for his opponent's left arm blocking. He then guides his opponent's left arm to jam his opponent's own right arm (his opponent falls into his trap). This way, when Bruce throws his back fist, his opponent has no arm to block it.

What if your opponent's punch just tries to bait your blocking arm like Bruce Lee did in his video?

 

[Matt]

Your combo 3 is "side door entering" that you use your opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm. You don't have to worry about your opponent's left arm that much.

Is there any reason that you let your opponent to punch you first? Do you have any combos that you punch your opponent first?

When you respond to your opponent's attack, you may fall into his trap. Will it be better to let your opponent to fall into your trap instead?

In this video, Bruce Lee uses right punch to bait for his opponent's left arm blocking. He then guides his opponent's left arm to jam his opponent's own right arm (his opponent falls into his trap). This way, when Bruce throws his back fist, his opponent has no arm to block it.

What if your opponent's punch just tries to bait your blocking arm like Bruce Lee did in his video?

View attachment 34722

I absolutely see where you are coming from. In my current practice, there are preemptive techniques. In the art I am trying to influence (one I used to do) they rely exclusively on reactive techniques. That's what I'm working with.