Selling your art
- Thread starter ppko
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OUMoose
Trying to find my place
Are you speaking about people in general, or other martial artists?
I generally don't talk to people about martial arts, unless they are also a practitioner. Most of the times I've tried to put it into conversation, the talk quickly degenerates into either "well how many people could you whoop at the same time" or "How many boards have you broken" or (my personal favorite) "all that karate mumbojumbo won't help against a gun". On the rare occasion, however, they will have some good questions, and I try to answer them to the best of my ability.
Guess I'm trying to say that people have to make their own decision. I would tell people of my experiences, and some of the training, and see if they are interested. If so, great, if not, that's fine. To each their own.
(not sure if I answered the question, but I hope it helps at least.
)
I generally don't talk to people about martial arts, unless they are also a practitioner. Most of the times I've tried to put it into conversation, the talk quickly degenerates into either "well how many people could you whoop at the same time" or "How many boards have you broken" or (my personal favorite) "all that karate mumbojumbo won't help against a gun". On the rare occasion, however, they will have some good questions, and I try to answer them to the best of my ability.
Guess I'm trying to say that people have to make their own decision. I would tell people of my experiences, and some of the training, and see if they are interested. If so, great, if not, that's fine. To each their own.
(not sure if I answered the question, but I hope it helps at least.
)
OP
OP
ppko
Master Black Belt
Well both as I have fellow Martial Artist and people that have never done the Martial Arts come up to me and ask about what I do. I have gotten a few students through these discussions but just wandering how you would sell your art.OUMoose said:Are you speaking about people in general, or other martial artists?
I generally don't talk to people about martial arts, unless they are also a practitioner. Most of the times I've tried to put it into conversation, the talk quickly degenerates into either "well how many people could you whoop at the same time" or "How many boards have you broken" or (my personal favorite) "all that karate mumbojumbo won't help against a gun". On the rare occasion, however, they will have some good questions, and I try to answer them to the best of my ability.
Guess I'm trying to say that people have to make their own decision. I would tell people of my experiences, and some of the training, and see if they are interested. If so, great, if not, that's fine. To each their own.
(not sure if I answered the question, but I hope it helps at least.
D_Brady
Purple Belt
ppko said:
If your compassion for your art isn't good enough then there might not be any more you can do. People can spot a sales pitch and bragging how your art is better than everyone elses isn't the way to either.
I think your feelings about what you do should be enough for those looking but not enough for those who are not.
Dan.
I am compulsed to ask, what are you selling and why?
1. Are you trying to create and/or expand a business? If so, you must understand why most people come to martial arts - some because they feel the tug in the heart, others feel the tug of status, others toss their kids in for exposure and development, still others toss their kids in to develop the discipline they never learned at the hands of their parents. There are a million reasons people go into martial arts which generally break down into several categories. Understanding these and an individual's motivation to talk to you about it in the first place are the keys to growing your business.
2. Are you trying to grow and expand your art? The same questions must apply - why is the individual inquiring and do you really want to teach them?
3. Unfortunately, Martial Arts professional businesses incorporate ideas about business that keep them going in that manner that may or may not be good for a martial art in and of itself; of course, that is my very own, slightly slanted opinion, but I digress.
4. Share your passion - forget the immovable heart stuff. Offer two weeks free lessons or one or two free private lessons with the curious individual and address their specific inquiries, then indulge in a little showmanship and give samples of things that are unique to your art, then tell about success stories of people you know.
Just my .02
1. Are you trying to create and/or expand a business? If so, you must understand why most people come to martial arts - some because they feel the tug in the heart, others feel the tug of status, others toss their kids in for exposure and development, still others toss their kids in to develop the discipline they never learned at the hands of their parents. There are a million reasons people go into martial arts which generally break down into several categories. Understanding these and an individual's motivation to talk to you about it in the first place are the keys to growing your business.
2. Are you trying to grow and expand your art? The same questions must apply - why is the individual inquiring and do you really want to teach them?
3. Unfortunately, Martial Arts professional businesses incorporate ideas about business that keep them going in that manner that may or may not be good for a martial art in and of itself; of course, that is my very own, slightly slanted opinion, but I digress.
4. Share your passion - forget the immovable heart stuff. Offer two weeks free lessons or one or two free private lessons with the curious individual and address their specific inquiries, then indulge in a little showmanship and give samples of things that are unique to your art, then tell about success stories of people you know.
Just my .02
T
tmonis
Guest
Shesula,shesulsa said:
Very good points. I agree with you.:uhyeah:
Hi Joe,
I love it,too,and love sharing MA with anyone,anywhere. I will say that after the first 6 or 7 pairs of glazed-over eyes,I just let them come for a visit to see what MA has to offer.
Talk is usually wasted on people with no concept of what you're talking about,so let them come to you.The people who are genuinely interested have a knack for showing up at the Dojo.
OP
OP
ppko
Master Black Belt
Thank you as always paul you have been of great help, by the way if you are ever in my part of town give me a call and stop by my place my phone number is 812 584 3782Paul B said:Hi Joe,
I love it,too,and love sharing MA with anyone,anywhere. I will say that after the first 6 or 7 pairs of glazed-over eyes,I just let them come for a visit to see what MA has to offer.
Talk is usually wasted on people with no concept of what you're talking about,so let them come to you.The people who are genuinely interested have a knack for showing up at the Dojo.
ppko said:
Talk to potential students about how you teach and what sets it apart from the "bulk" of the schools out there. If you specialize in something, "show it."
PPKO
I have to agree with what has already been posted by the others. I've been asked this question alot by people at work since I've been there a long time and word gets around. You have to figure out what the person really wants to know.
Do they really want to know what you do and what sets your art/you apart from others or are they trying to make polite conversation.
If they are really interested (which is generally fellow martial artists, or parents of kids in the arts) then I will go into more detail. But generally I give a brief description and let it go due to it being a co-worker is just passing time. I notice that you practice Modern Arnis, so do I. And since the FMA and Presas Arnis (GM Remy's and GM Ernesto's systems) is what I perfer to study now then I find it real easy in my work place to demonstrate some simple concepts about translating stick movements to blade to empty hand with tools near by. If they are a fellow martial artist/former martial artist than that generally gets their attention and we can have a fun discussion and sometimes I get private students out of it.
Mark
I have to agree with what has already been posted by the others. I've been asked this question alot by people at work since I've been there a long time and word gets around. You have to figure out what the person really wants to know.
Do they really want to know what you do and what sets your art/you apart from others or are they trying to make polite conversation.
If they are really interested (which is generally fellow martial artists, or parents of kids in the arts) then I will go into more detail. But generally I give a brief description and let it go due to it being a co-worker is just passing time. I notice that you practice Modern Arnis, so do I. And since the FMA and Presas Arnis (GM Remy's and GM Ernesto's systems) is what I perfer to study now then I find it real easy in my work place to demonstrate some simple concepts about translating stick movements to blade to empty hand with tools near by. If they are a fellow martial artist/former martial artist than that generally gets their attention and we can have a fun discussion and sometimes I get private students out of it.
Mark
Thats a good description of how I recruit students that I am aquainted with. Those that are referred over the net or such I have to "assume" that they are completely new to the arts.The Boar Man said:
I have a background in several arts so it is easy to show what they will "typically" receive from someone else in a 60 min. class (that costs more).
I teach for a min 1.5 hr, usually a little more than 2 hrs. So off the top I offer value compared to the avearge school. Next step, is keeping the student!
akja said:
Akja
I do the same. With a background from several different systems Americanized TKD and Americanized Wado, Various FMA systems, very limited knowledge and training at times in Kobudo, Aikijujutsu, kenpo (with friend ) etc. etc. I can converse with just about anyone on the MAs that I meet at work or out and about.
I teach generally the same length of time, the latest student who came to me (we met at work) found out he could get the same amount of training with me for almost a 1/3 of what he was paying for private lessons. And considering that he's getting basically private lessons with me he's happy as can be. Plus I could demonstrate some ideas/concepts techniques etc. etc. at work using my tools and it looks as if we're working
Mark
C
clapping_tiger
Guest
I have kind of a funny story related to this topic. It doesn't have to do with getting students for a school or anything, but shutting up a long time friend who was skeptical about training in MA.
We had a cookout at our house and he walked by me and hit me in the stomach (not real hard, but enough where I could feel it) and said "ha! So where was your martial arts that time?" I just smiled and nodded. About an hour later I was talking to someone else and he walked by and did it again. Then a little later I saw him coming in my direction and I playfully came at him (and didn't touch him with the strikes to the head) with 2 high back-knuckles to the head, 1 punch to the stomach, 1 left to the face, Trapped his arm and took him down to the ground. The look on his face was priceless. He said that he didn't do anything yet. I explained to him that from my past experience with him that day, that the way he was approaching me, I learned to anticipate what he was going to do. And took action before he could do anything to me. After that point we had a decent conversation about my training; everything from sparring, street defense and even the reality about defending yourself against an armed attacker. Ever since he has been begging me to train him at home. I never had the space to do so, but now my wife and I just bought a new house so I think I may ask him if he is still interested.
This may not be a practical way to deal with people you don't know, but if you do have a school, invite them to see what you have to offer, and let them take a few freebies.
We had a cookout at our house and he walked by me and hit me in the stomach (not real hard, but enough where I could feel it) and said "ha! So where was your martial arts that time?" I just smiled and nodded. About an hour later I was talking to someone else and he walked by and did it again. Then a little later I saw him coming in my direction and I playfully came at him (and didn't touch him with the strikes to the head) with 2 high back-knuckles to the head, 1 punch to the stomach, 1 left to the face, Trapped his arm and took him down to the ground. The look on his face was priceless. He said that he didn't do anything yet. I explained to him that from my past experience with him that day, that the way he was approaching me, I learned to anticipate what he was going to do. And took action before he could do anything to me. After that point we had a decent conversation about my training; everything from sparring, street defense and even the reality about defending yourself against an armed attacker. Ever since he has been begging me to train him at home. I never had the space to do so, but now my wife and I just bought a new house so I think I may ask him if he is still interested.
This may not be a practical way to deal with people you don't know, but if you do have a school, invite them to see what you have to offer, and let them take a few freebies.
HammerFist
White Belt
I think that people choose instructors over arts. So don't look at it as selling your art. What you're really doing is selling yourself. Tell people why they should train with you. Explain what sets you apart from other schools. Explain how what you do has changed your life. If you're passionate about something, people will know. If you're trying to sell something, people will know.
When I was looking for a school, at one school I wasn't even able to talk to the instructor. I had to set up an appointment just to talk with the instructor (lame). This school got crossed off the list. Another guy came across as being very cocky while he was explaining that he has been studying for 8 years and would become a master in another 2. Like 10 years is some kind of magic number. The instructor that I finally chose was very down to earth and obviously very passionate about what he did. He even gave me a few warnings about what to look out for. Like contracts, and huge testing fees and always take the free class. Stuff like that. At my first class he made it a point to spend a decent amount of one on one time with me. Everyone in the class was also really cool so I went with that school.
Just my 2 cents hope this helps.
When I was looking for a school, at one school I wasn't even able to talk to the instructor. I had to set up an appointment just to talk with the instructor (lame). This school got crossed off the list. Another guy came across as being very cocky while he was explaining that he has been studying for 8 years and would become a master in another 2. Like 10 years is some kind of magic number. The instructor that I finally chose was very down to earth and obviously very passionate about what he did. He even gave me a few warnings about what to look out for. Like contracts, and huge testing fees and always take the free class. Stuff like that. At my first class he made it a point to spend a decent amount of one on one time with me. Everyone in the class was also really cool so I went with that school.
Just my 2 cents hope this helps.
C
clapping_tiger
Guest
Not entirely true. When I was looking for a school, even though I didn't know what I was looking for. I know what I did not want. I was not looking for Tae Kwon Do, Judo, Hapkido. I wanted to see what others had to offer and I chose Kenpo, mostly because I liked what I saw.HammerFist said:
HammerFist said:
Even though I don't agree entirely with your fist statement in your post. I agree 110% with what you say here. This is where I got lucky and found a great instructor and a school with cool people, some of which I formed a real strong friendship. Once you find a style that interests you, next you have to find an instructor who can help you along. Not one who you may never get any time with, or is more concerned with his rank, than the art itself. I also have noticed that instructors like the one who was cocky about his rank, will also usually throw out how many Black Belts he/she has promoted. Not that if someone has promoted a lot of people that is a bad thing, it is just how they throw that number around. I say follow your gut, usually you get an uneasy feeling about the school. Some ignore it and regret it later.
D
Deflecting_the_Storm
Guest
I agree with D_brady on the matter of anyone can spot a sales pitch. I tried to have a conversation with another Creator/teacher of an art and he ended up in a sales pitch and really insulted me. Being passionate should be enough but we all know that people want to see it "in action". What you teach them may not be the flashy type but its still effective, lots of people just dont like it. Most people watch a movie or see a demonstration and what to learn that, but that just happens to be for show, and thats what attracts people. I have gained students through word of mouth. I have a website and have made flyers but every student who was serious stayed because of others that I have trained. I ususally ask people what they are looking for or want they want to get out of learning MA, and that will almost always help you in telling them what your style or art has to offer. I love the fact that you arent going over to what I like to call the Darkside of MA which is selling, promoting and turning it into a machine that makes money. You sound like you just want to teach. Like most of us. One thing that I did that really helped me get student was something that was totally negative that ended up being very positive because of how I handled it. I was at a birthday party for a friend and there was one guy there that everyone was telling me to drop, that I needed to whoop this guy for his own good. I didnt pay any attention to it, but as soon as we got there I knew which person he was out of the group. He is like 5'3 120 pounds. In the military and very cocky about what he knows. He was bullying people around, talking dirty to his girlfriend and even made some racial slurs about a friend of mine who left. Well when he made that joke I guess because I am biracial he couldnt tell that I was of the same persuasion. So another friend came over and made it clear that I was still there and he shut up real quick. Later on I was showing a student of mine who was there why he was losing balance when he was kicking and he walked over to me a threw a punch. Knowing already what type of guy he was I blocked his punch and hit him in the face. He put his beer down and asked me if I wanted to "go" and I told him no thanks man just chilling here having a good time. He threw another punch and this time I hit him in the stomach. He dropped down to the ground and then took a fighting stance. I put my hands up and told him I didnt want to fight and he came at me again, this time I kicked him the groin. He dropped again. Got back up and someone had turned on a light outside, and it shined right in my face, but all of the sudden I threw a punch that happen to hit him right in the face when he started to swing again. This really hurt him and he fell straight down to the ground. I put my hands up and said, "Hey I dont want to fight anymore" I turned around and he grabbed my legs and took me to the ground and I put him in the guard. I heard someone say hey are you guys fighting or messing around, I waited for his response he said,"naw were just messing around" and then he tries to throw a punch at my groin, and I thought screw it and fishhooked his mouth and he stopped. I thought that maybe my friends would look at me differently because of how viciously I ended it but intern alot of people there that I didnt know, ended up calling me asking me if I would train them. If the art is important, talk to people about it, if its about money, then sell it to people. If its both than sell your art by talking to people about it. Best of luck.
