Self Defense when drinking.

[ChrisWTK]

Well yes that may be true... it probably isn't fair or realistic... but it's sensible advice Sam, because by NOT drinking you won't have to worry about several things... i.e.
1. Waking up in the morning in bed saying to yourself... "What the HELL happened?"
2. Waking up in jail saying the same thing (called... Alcoholic Black-outs)
3. Waking up next to someone that you never met (nekkid even).
4. Waking up with your co-worker who may or may not be already married.
5. Waking up in the hospital and your lawyer and/or insurance agent want to know how the accident happend... you don't remember.
6. Waking up on the floor. A strange smelly bathroom floor. Or even your own... with dried vomit and urine on the side of your face.
7. Waking up in the hospital period.

The list goes on.
Maybe I'm biased... but having been clean and sober for the last 17+ years... I can say I'm damned glad I don't have those worries at all. And... IMO anyone who chuckles and says "heh, I don't either and I haven't quit drinking..." is a damned fool.

But ... that's just me.

Yes, that list is true if you're drinking irresponsibly. Which for me isn't the case. Two drinks isn't going to make me lose my head to the point I would end up in any of those situations without being consciously aware of it.

 

[Dark]

Hehe, you make it sound like I fight drunk often. I guess I need training in both drinking and just general self defense. I like your suggestion, I figure at home is safest to do that, I can't see it being respectable to walk into the dojo drunk, even if there are two bars next to it. Although we've had incidents where drunk people have stupidly come into the dojo. Friday nights are always interesting.

No but I fight drunk and often Army guys lol. I actually do the russian circle with strobe lights and drunk while in the dojo, but that falls under special training. Its fun and a great way to test yourself under adverse conditions, also I've noticed the more I drink the more I learn to control the effects of alcohol. Now most people can't tell when I'm drunk or sober which may be a bad thing lol.

 

[Swordlady]

Here's my two bits: It is FAR more dangerous for a woman to be in a SD situation while inebriated than a guy. Why? Because of the risk of sexual assault and all the other fun stuff that comes with the territory. You definitely do NOT want to wake up and find yourself pregnant with some unknown schmuck's baby, or with some kind of disease.

It is said that an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure. By all means, have fun - but be safe. As much as possible, don't put yourself in a situation where your own physical well-being may be unnecessarily placed in jeopardy.

 

[Cruentus]

A lot of good points so far...

I don't think its realistic or fair to tell someone they shouldn't drink, ever.

I agree.

I for one like "drinking."

But, you don't have to drink to the point of being an *** (not that you would advocate that, but I am just saying), or to the point of inebreation to where you don't have adequete judgement or coordination for self-defense.

Some simple rules to stay safe:

1. Have a designated driver/sober friend. This is the person who you can rely on to basically stay sober. The person who can make the 9-11 call, make the judgement calls when all else fails, drive people home, etc.

2. Don't go to ****** places where fights and BS occur. Try to stick with places where your less likely to have a problem.

3. Follow simple, basic, self-defense rules. Use the buddy system, carry a cell phone, be aware of your surrounding, etc., etc., etc. These basic principles shouldn't change when your painting the town; they in fact should be more pronounced.

4. Get to know the staff at the places you frequent. If I've been to a bar/tavern more then twice, I can assure you that I or someone with my group usually will know a good portion of the staff by then who will vouch in our favor if anything goes down.

5. This is the last but not least principle, and probably the most important. DON'T BE AN ***! This applies to guys and gals. Alcahol is not an excuse to be an ***, and get yourself into a problem that would require "self-defense." I put "self defense" in quotes because most likely if you are hammered and your judgement sucks and you get in trouble because you are being an ***, you will be considered a "mutual combatant." It won't be "self-defense," it will be you going to jail.

I will aim #3 and #5 at the female gender at the moment, because I often see females who use alcahol as an excuse to overlook these simple points.

As for #3, don't do stuff that would put you in a position where you aren't in control. Don't go take a ride or go to visit some dudes room when you've been drinking, unless of course you want to have the guy not "stop" sexual advances when you say so, resulting in long showers and psychological trauma that will ruin your future relationships and haunt you for the rest of your life. Get the point? good...

As for #5, I see a lot of cases where women think they can drink and be asses, and because they are "girls," they won't be assaulted or have any recourse for their actions. This happends a lot with "daddys girls" who are pretty. Well....

Bullstuff! You may get away with being the drunk obnoxious ***** on more then one occasion without reprocussion; but you are playing Russian Roulette and if you continue to play you will pay for it.

I watched this happen recently. Some overprivlidged ***** was at the bar I went to Friday with about 18 people. She and her friends gave the waitress a hard time, so the bouncer had asked them to either cash out or give a credit card to run a tab. This little lady decided to call the bouncer every name in the book. Because she was "pretty" the manager let everything slide, thus she got away with her behavior. She and her pretentious hoochy friend continued their behavior, and at the end of the night, she opened her big mouth and started insulting another table. That table got up, and basically punked out the entire group. Most of the 18 people scattered, leaving a few guys who didn't want to feel "casterated" so they attempted to stand some sort of ground when they were paying their tab and leaving. They almost got their asses kicked. Knowing the people at that table (and knowing that they also knew all the bouncers and that bar) they would have killed those guys who were with the obnoxious drunk chick; and some weren't averse to hitting the girls either. Had the guys who were with "drunk chick" made one wrong move or insult, they would have been destroyed.

And why? All because some dumbass drunk girl thought she was above rule #5. The sad part is that unlike the guys, she doesn't even realize how close she was to getting her *** kicked, and getting her friends asses kicked. Had it have been someone of more of a criminal nature that she mouthed off too, she would have been looking at possibly being followed to her car, or assaulted on the spot. She was drunk and "special", and thought she was above the "don't be an ***" rule.

Well, she wasn't. And neither are any of us.

Most of this stuff is "common" sense that is becoming less and less common today. Those 5 rules are just to get you started, but use common sense and you should be fine.

Stay safe, and good luck!

Paul

 

[Zepp]

I vaguely remember attempting a spin kick while obliteratingly inebriated. I'm told it sucked.

Really? When I throw drunken spin kicks, they come out awesome.

Ok seriously, whether you are totally sober, slightly buzzed, or completely smashed, situational awareness is your first line of defense. If you're losing track of what's going on around you when you drink out in public, then you need to change your drinking habits. Instead of 2 beers, perhaps you might find it easier to nurse one mixed drink, or a glass of wine.

Keeping yourself in the immediate company of responsible, reliable friends is another must, especially for women (for already stated reasons).

As far as the loss of coordination goes, that's just a risk you accept when you drink. I do like Dark's idea of tipsy training. But it can be hard to find training partners for that.

Social drinking used to be quite a regular activity for me. I'm happy to say that I've successfully avoided violence in every case where drunken violence was possible. It can be done.

Edit: I guess I took too long to post, because Tulisan's rules kind of make mine unnecessary. Oh well.

 

[Cryozombie]

oh and a couple of pics that help illustrate my point... can you really trust the people you're with?

If you can't... you have really ****** friends...

It is FAR more dangerous for a woman to be in a SD situation while inebriated than a guy. Why? Because of the risk of sexual assault and all the other fun stuff that comes with the territory.

Yeah, I agree... which is why if you are going to get into that situation (drunk) you absolutley have to trust the people you drink with to take care of you.

like the story of some girl who was stupid drunk in a Denny's parking lot and just laying there almost passed out, her freind was better, but she was in no condition to drive... Why were they there? Because it turns out they were with some other "friends" who decided that they wanted to go keep drinking, and these two girls were already too drunk to go with to the next bar, so they "dumped" them in the Dennys lot. If I had been predatory, both those girls would have been in trouble that night.

You just can't do that to a friend who is drunk... In the case of those girls, me and my friends made sure they were well taken care of that night and that they got home safe... we got them some food, some coffee and sat up with them until they could get someone to get them home.

 

[MJS]

Ok, last night I was with friends and we were drinking. I hadn't had much to drink because I'm female and I know I can't handle nearly as much as my male friends. But at one point my friend just pushed me slightly and over I went. Now I was in friendly company at that time, but what if it was otherwise? When I drink I become off blance and other senses go like depth perception and motor control. I would feel more comfortable knowing that I can still be able to protect myself even when I'm out and enjoying myself.

Is there any way to really practice a simulated version of this situation? Such as working yourself really hard and then practicing moves while tired and out of breathe. I'm not looking to avoid the situation, because I know it's easy to just say, well don't drink, but rather a way to feel like I could still be capable of protecting myself when I'm under those conditions.

A little late to the thread, but I'll throw in my .02 anyway. Looks like you've got some good info. so far. I suppose you could do as some suggested, and train under the conditions you were in that night. I realize that when you're out, you want to have a good time. Afterall, isn't that the point of going out, to have fun? However, I think what some are saying, so not to get to the point where you're falling over, can't walk without having assistance, can't think clearly, etc. etc.

I realize that you said that you go out with friends and are in good company, but unless you're in their company the entire time you're at the bar/club, not seperating yourself from them at any time, the chances of you falling prey to someone with ill intentions are pretty good. If you're not thinking clearly, and getting easily distracted, it only takes a second for someone to slip something into your drink.

Again, I don't think people are saying not to have fun, but at the same time, do your best to keep good judgement.:ultracool

Mike

 

[FearlessFreep]

When I go out, it's too listen to the music (I'm a jazz musician and jazz/r&b/etc..fan) not to drink. So I do what was mentioned before "nurse a drink all night" coupled with lot's of water.

 

[Explorer]

I think I'm seeing a wide variety of ages in these responses. I'll give the same advice to my sons when they began traveling with thier rugby teams. There will come a time when you want to know what it feels like to tie one on. 1. Be sure you are in a safe environment. 2. Be sure you can trust the people you are with. 3. It doesn't take nearly as much alcohol as you think to be a roaring drunk.

That said; I found the older I got ... the less I needed much alcohol to have a good time. These days it's two drinks ... maybe. On rare occasions one of my assistant instructors has talked me into 2 long island iced teas .... THAT's plenty. I found that my hand work isn't as bad as my footwork in those situations.

 

[Tony]

I try not to drink when i go out. In fact I'm virtually tee total because alcohol does slow your reflexes and has often made people more aggressive. If I do drink I never get really drunk because I liek to keep my wits about me. Maybe you could look into learning Drunken Style kungfu.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I'm not gonna lie and say I'll "never" drink again, but I've more or less given it up as part of my life.(It never was a big part anyway, i'd drink a lot, like, once a year). Both your grandparents having been alcoholic will temper you that way. *shrug*

But if you like drinking, what's wrong with doing it and you and friends all get together by yourselves at one friend's house for the night( we even used to watch stupid B movies once the alcohol came out for as long as we stayed awake--everything was funny then). Have your chance to let off steam but now you've done it away from placer with the most likelihood of trouble.

 

[Makalakumu]

I vaguely remember attempting a spin kick while obliteratingly inebriated. I'm told it sucked.

So that is how I put my head through the wall...:drinky:

I'll usually drink in moderation and make sure that I'm upping my water intake. Tulisan's post is great, btw...

 

[Rich Parsons]

A lot of good points so far...



I agree.

I for one like "drinking."

But, you don't have to drink to the point of being an *** (not that you would advocate that, but I am just saying), or to the point of inebreation to where you don't have adequete judgement or coordination for self-defense.

Some simple rules to stay safe:

1. Have a designated driver/sober friend. This is the person who you can rely on to basically stay sober. The person who can make the 9-11 call, make the judgement calls when all else fails, drive people home, etc.

2. Don't go to ****** places where fights and BS occur. Try to stick with places where your less likely to have a problem.

3. Follow simple, basic, self-defense rules. Use the buddy system, carry a cell phone, be aware of your surrounding, etc., etc., etc. These basic principles shouldn't change when your painting the town; they in fact should be more pronounced.

4. Get to know the staff at the places you frequent. If I've been to a bar/tavern more then twice, I can assure you that I or someone with my group usually will know a good portion of the staff by then who will vouch in our favor if anything goes down.

5. This is the last but not least principle, and probably the most important. DON'T BE AN ***! This applies to guys and gals. Alcahol is not an excuse to be an ***, and get yourself into a problem that would require "self-defense." I put "self defense" in quotes because most likely if you are hammered and your judgement sucks and you get in trouble because you are being an ***, you will be considered a "mutual combatant." It won't be "self-defense," it will be you going to jail.

I will aim #3 and #5 at the female gender at the moment, because I often see females who use alcahol as an excuse to overlook these simple points.

As for #3, don't do stuff that would put you in a position where you aren't in control. Don't go take a ride or go to visit some dudes room when you've been drinking, unless of course you want to have the guy not "stop" sexual advances when you say so, resulting in long showers and psychological trauma that will ruin your future relationships and haunt you for the rest of your life. Get the point? good...

As for #5, I see a lot of cases where women think they can drink and be asses, and because they are "girls," they won't be assaulted or have any recourse for their actions. This happends a lot with "daddys girls" who are pretty. Well....

Bullstuff! You may get away with being the drunk obnoxious ***** on more then one occasion without reprocussion; but you are playing Russian Roulette and if you continue to play you will pay for it.

I watched this happen recently. Some overprivlidged ***** was at the bar I went to Friday with about 18 people. She and her friends gave the waitress a hard time, so the bouncer had asked them to either cash out or give a credit card to run a tab. This little lady decided to call the bouncer every name in the book. Because she was "pretty" the manager let everything slide, thus she got away with her behavior. She and her pretentious hoochy friend continued their behavior, and at the end of the night, she opened her big mouth and started insulting another table. That table got up, and basically punked out the entire group. Most of the 18 people scattered, leaving a few guys who didn't want to feel "casterated" so they attempted to stand some sort of ground when they were paying their tab and leaving. They almost got their asses kicked. Knowing the people at that table (and knowing that they also knew all the bouncers and that bar) they would have killed those guys who were with the obnoxious drunk chick; and some weren't averse to hitting the girls either. Had the guys who were with "drunk chick" made one wrong move or insult, they would have been destroyed.

And why? All because some dumbass drunk girl thought she was above rule #5. The sad part is that unlike the guys, she doesn't even realize how close she was to getting her *** kicked, and getting her friends asses kicked. Had it have been someone of more of a criminal nature that she mouthed off too, she would have been looking at possibly being followed to her car, or assaulted on the spot. She was drunk and "special", and thought she was above the "don't be an ***" rule.

Well, she wasn't. And neither are any of us.

Most of this stuff is "common" sense that is becoming less and less common today. Those 5 rules are just to get you started, but use common sense and you should be fine.

Stay safe, and good luck!

Paul

Yes Number 5 does really bother me. The skinny little guy who always hides when the crap goes down but mouth's off at the wrong/right time to start something.

I was with some friends who had other friends with them who had other friends with them. We were out of town not a local hang out and he started some crap. The big guys came over to take it out on me and others who were my size or bigger. I asked them to explain what the problem was and they told me all about this guy I did not know. He had come around to the back side of the table and now was tanding behind me and trying to mouth off to them while they were talking. I told him to shut the heck up and poked him in the throat. He then tried to stammer out his side and could not come up with something that anyone would believe. So, I grabbed his head and torque'd him so his hands came up and I grabbed a finger and locked him to the ground into the chairs. Then back up. He was screaming the whole way. Some with me asked what I was doing. I said this little piece of crap that has started this is is not hiding behind me is going to get his butt kicked first before I get mine kicked. The wrist lock that had him hoping on his toes made the other guys laugh so hard they just waved their hands and laughed more at him and left us alone. I then told him to sit down next to me and if he got up without my say so I would do it again.

********************

And as Paul has stated women can also cause just as much or more so if a problem in this type of situation. They get into people's face and step on feet with heels and poke faces and throats with nails. All assualts in my book which would require self-defense in my mind. But they think becuase they are a woman and there is this stigma of it is bad to hit a woman the are safe. The problem is if she is hitting you, by law (* of my state *) one can apply equal and opposite force in self defense.

In most cases though the guys with them end up getting into the fight to defend their woman's honour and their own as well. The problem is that you never know who you are going to meet and or be up against. Remember there are people out there who go out looking for conflicts and thereby are used to this and enjoy it.

If you are insulted by the staff or someone there do not make the scene. Leave and talk with the Manager or come back the next day when you are sober and talk to them then.

 

[thescottishdude]

when drinking, the number 1 cause of you getting into a position when you need self defense onthe streets is loss of awareneww. every time you're drunk make a note of forcing yourself to look around you so that it becomes natural.

I suppose you could "train" with alcohol. start off drinking half a bottle fo beer before a training session, then 3/4 then 1 bottle etc so you try to build up a slight immunity. i wouldn't reccommend it though as you could cause yourself an accident.

 

[soul_sword34]

If you plan on drinking and are worried about self-defense then practice both. I am a former alcoholic and in the day could execute precise movements with perfect balance, i.e. stand on one leg and stretch down your head to your standing knee while the leg up in the air straight above you. I could hold it for as long as I wanted. Point, become a better drunk or don't drink.

That is why we practice basics. They are simple, gross muscular movements and require little memory or concentration. I was in a gang fight about 7 years ago in an unknown neighborhood, night time around 30 (sure seemed like that many) combatants, completely drunk out of my gord. Long story how I got there and how this came about.

I noticed 2 things. #1. I completely forgot I knew any martial art, at that time I had practiced for 3 (23 if you consider boxing) years seriously everyday. My defense was against knives, empty hand and a handgun. #2. my feet never ever left the ground. I only used my hands (over 20 years of boxing).

I can still remember my reaction to the thought, after fighting off several guys, "hey wait a minute, I know martial arts!". Upon that revelation I dropped into a Neutral Bow as a guy pulled a butterfly knife out of his pocket. I ended up knocking his teeth out and smashing his right ribcage after I hit him in the face with a brick. The real problem I had was not knowing my surroundings and was unable to perceive anything, i.e. I could not sense anything around me and had severe tunnel vision. That night I faced two knives and a 9mm and am still alive to tell about it. Before anyone asks about the 9mm my defense was running in a zig zag pattern opposite way, bullets whizzing by my head. Zip! Zip! Funny, I was thinking they sounded like bees and really had no fear at all. Thank god for LEO's.

I would never had been in that part of town if I was sober.