sai

[satans.barber]

I've been given a pair of sai as a gift from a friend for building him a new computer.

I was wondering if anyone had ever worked these into kenpo in any way, and if so with any success? I've never seen, heard or read about anybody doing so that I can remember.

They look like more of a traditional Japanese karate thing so me, they're not edged so I can't make nice circular slicing motions like I can with knives!

If anyone has any particularly informative tutative URLs for them, they'd be appreciated as well, save me wading though the crap ones!

Ian.

 

[kenpo_jeff]

I believe the sai are Okinawan, so try searching on Kobudo, or trational Okinawan arts such as Shorin-ryu.

 

[Rob_Broad]

Try short form one with them. Just add a punch after each major block like you do in long form 1. This will help you get a feel for the weapon.

 

[Robbo]

The sai are a very versatile weapon. You can hook, stab, club, trap, etc. You should be able to translate your Kenpo techniques while using them. Of course the best way to learn them would be to study from someone who is intimate with their usage.

Having said that, studying them for historical referance is fine but putting time and effort into becoming really proficient (free fighting ability) with them I would question as you can't really carry them down the street and anything laying around wouldn't resemble them. I would put my time and effort into stick weapons and bladed weapons.

The only thing I really wanted to do with sai was to learn a kick @ss tournament form and learn the bunkai of that form so I could be a little knowledgeble about their use.

Rob

P.S. their history along with all the japanese farmer type implements/weapons is interesting though

P.S.S. remember to carry 3 though, 1 for throwing

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Robbo



P.S. their history along with all the japanese farmer type implements/weapons is interesting though

They were never used as a farm tool of any kind. That is a myth.

 

[Robbo]

They were never used as a farm tool of any kind. That is a myth.

Hmmm, well I quess I've perpetuated the myth. But if it's a myth the truth should still be interesting....care to share the origins of the sai?

Rob :asian:

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan




They were never used as a farm tool of any kind. That is a myth.

I read that you poke it into the ground to make evenly spaced holes for planting rice seeds in...?

Ian.

 

[RyuShiKan]

If I am not mistaken the Sai has already been discussed at some length on this board. Please do a word search for more info.


The Sai were never used as a farm tool, never used to poke holes in the ground for rice.
Actually if you look at the way people plant rice you will see that the mud is so soft there is no need to do use anything to poke a hole.

It was a weapon carried by the Okinawan "Police force" in much the same way the Japanese "Police force" used the Jutte. (a weapon similar to the sai).

 

[RyuShiKan]

I didn't write this:


Any penetrating review of Okinawan weapons history is a mixture of hyperbole and fact.
Most modern martial arts students have been taught that Okinawan kobudo developed as a result of the Okinawan samurai being stripped of their weapons at two different points in their history. But a review of these incidents shows that our current view of the roots of Okinawan kobudo might be based on misconceptions.


The first time that the Okinawan samurai's weapons were supposedly confiscated was during the reign of King Shoshin (1477 - 1526). While it is documented that King Shoshin ordered his provincial lords, or aji, to live near his castle in Shuri, many historians no longer believe that he totally disarmed his ruling class. A famous stone monument, the Momo Urasoe Ran Kan No Mei, which is inscribed with the highlights of King Shoshin's reign, talks about the King seizing the aji's swords, and how he amassed a supply of weapons in a warehouse near Shuri castle. But some Okinawan historians now interpret that King Shoshin was actually building an armory to protect his ports and prepare for any potential invasion by wako, or pirates, not that he was stripping the Okinawan samurai or the general population of their weaponry.
The second time that the Okinawan samurai were purportedly disarmed was after the Satsuma invasion of 1609. But documents have been recovered that state that the Satsuma outlawed the ownership and sale of firearms, all the Okinawan samurai of the Pechin class and above were allowed to keep those muskets and pistols that were already in their family's possession.
There is further documentation that in 1613 the Satsuma issued permits for the Okinawan samurai to travel with their personal swords (tachi and wakizashi) to the smiths and polishers in Kagushima, Japan for maintenance and repair. From the issuance of these permits, it is logical to infer that there were restrictions on the Okinawan samurai carrying their weapons in public, but it is also clear evidence that these weapons were not confiscated by the Satsuma.
Based on this misconception that the Okinawan samurai were stripped of their weapons by the Satsuma most modern martial arts students are taught that Okinawan kobudo developed because the Okinawans turned to farm implements for their self-defense and training. When we consider the sai specifically we can see that the plausibility of this common myth is significantly strained.
Sensei Toshihiro Oshiro, long time practitioner of Yamanni-Chinen Ryu Bojutsu and the Chief Instructor for the Ryukyu Bujutsu Kenkyu Doyukai - USA, says that he has never found any evidence in his own extensive research to support the theory that the sai was used as a farming tool. Nor has he been told that by any of his teachers. He asserts that the sai has always been a weapon.

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan

If I am not mistaken the Sai has already been discussed at some length on this board. Please do a word search for more info.

I did that before I posted, only saw a couple of mentions of them in passing, no real discussion abour kenpo and sai. Feel free to post an URL if I've missed one,

Ian.

 

[Robbo]

RyuShiKan....

What was the purpose in it's creation? Was it developed for the express purpose of fighting a person with a sword due to it's ability to catch the blade in it's prongs. Or did it have another purpose and it was just a bonus that it was good against bladed waepons also.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[RyuShiKan]

I am not sure. It is also good against Bo, Jo, or just about any weapon of that nature...........it also works well against empty hand techniques.