Roundhouse kicks

[tkdroamer]

What do you mean steep chamber, skribs? I haven’t heard that term before.

High knee.

 

[tkdroamer]

Oh I see…his kick leg’s knee is very flexed.

There is a lot of mechanics working in concert on a TKD kick. So much so, I could nit-pick things that are wrong in the above photo. But it may just be the static moment of the picture.
Speed is such a huge factor in TKD competition, so when most of your points are made with the legs/feet, well you get it. Add to this the power requirement (however diminished), and you quickly learn how important it is to efficiently use all the body to make power, conserve energy, and be fast.

 

[Gyakuto]

High knee.

This is something we were never taught in Wado Ryu Karate. For example, the right knee is lifted and flexed as in a front kick, the right hip pushed forward and left foot pivots on the floor and the foot trajectory to the opponents head is at about 30 to 45 degrees (to the vertical) rather that 90 degrees as I see here and in other styles).

 

[tkdroamer]

This is something we were never taught in Wado Ryu Karate. For example, the right knee is lifted and flexed as in a front kick, the right hip pushed forward and left foot pivots on the floor and the foot trajectory to the opponents head is at about 30 to 45 degrees (to the vertical) rather that 90 degrees as I see here and in other styles).

Different style, different teaching. Karate is what, maybe 30%-40% kicks? Versus 85%-90% in WT TKD. So, the emphasis is very different.
Much of what you say is similar but what do you mean by the hip is flexed?

 

[Gyakuto]

Perhaps a few photos from one of my other teachers, might explain it better. He is 9th Dan Hanshi.

 

[Jimmythebull]

All this technicality is fine but in a real fight will you worry about it. Just take him out.
I'm just wondering if this is true, I actually heard from a few people that TKD is the worst for hips, more so than other style.
Is this because of the higher ratio of kicks or the kicking technicality??

 

[skribs]

All this technicality is fine but in a real fight will you worry about it. Just take him out.

Then there's no point in training because in a real fight just take them out. You train so that you have thousands of repetitions with each technique. I've literally probably done about a million roundhouse kicks. You also start to worry about more and more details the more and more you throw, so that you can improve. That way your millionth kick is actually better than your 900,000th kick, and you can keep improving.

 

[Jimmythebull]

Then there's no point in training because in a real fight just take them out. You train so that you have thousands of repetitions with each technique. I've literally probably done about a million roundhouse kicks. You also start to worry about more and more details the more and more you throw, so that you can improve. That way your millionth kick is actually better than your 900,000th kick, and you can keep improving.

I get the perfection thing & the repetitions so not disagreeing there but from my experiences what´s trained in a dojo is rarely so crisp & clean in a real fight.

 

[Gyakuto]

Is this because of the higher ratio of kicks or the kicking technicality??

…or is it because the hips haven’t evolved to perform repeated high kicks?

 

[Jimmythebull]

…or is it because the hips haven’t evolved to perform repeated high kicks?

wear and tear happens through repeated repetitions, not sure what you mean by evolved. I´ve spoken to a few TKD higher grades who i noticed all started at a very young age. could it be detrimental to start when the joints are still growing? is this what you mean by not evolved?

 

[skribs]

I get the perfection thing & the repetitions so not disagreeing there but from my experiences what´s trained in a dojo is rarely so crisp & clean in a real fight.

There's a couple of pieces to this. One is that stress lessens the "crispness" of your techniques, and so that crisper you have them, the better they will be under stress. A simple analogy is if stress drops your crispness by 3, and you're at a 4 or less, you'll be down to a 1. But if you're at an 8 it will drop to a 5.

Another piece is that crispness is generally for a picture-perfect technique, and often picture-perfect isn't going to land. You make adjustments based on the angle and range you need to hit. It doesn't look as pretty, but it hits.

 

[skribs]

wear and tear happens through repeated repetitions, not sure what you mean by evolved. I´ve spoken to a few TKD higher grades who i noticed all started at a very young age. could it be detrimental to start when the joints are still growing? is this what you mean by not evolved?

When you're young, you heal better than someone who is older. Someone who starts young is going to be able to do those kicks easier than someone who starts older, because they've been doing them since a very young age. An older person will have less wear and tear, but they will also have stiffer hips to start with. It's just a part of getting older that your joints don't work as well as they would have before.

One of the alternatives is to have a sedentary life, in which your joints are going to be messed up because you weigh 100 pounds more than you should, and you haven't strengthened them to handle exercise.

 

[Jimmythebull]

One of the alternatives is to have a sedentary life, in which your joints are going to be messed up because you weigh 100 pounds more than you should, and you haven't strengthened them to handle exercise.

not everyone is 100 pounds overweight at least not where i live, infact i see old people cycling around here every day. you´re probably talking about the USA here...

When you're young, you heal better than someone who is older. Someone who starts young is going to be able to do those kicks easier than someone who starts older, because they've been doing them since a very young age.

yes this is obvious but after starting young a lot who i´ve spoken to have hip problems due to the kicks. I remember one girl telling me she had a hip issue & was about 20. she started young.

 

[tkdroamer]

I get the perfection thing & the repetitions so not disagreeing there but from my experiences what´s trained in a dojo is rarely so crisp & clean in a real fight.

Then something is wrong with the training. We should never be just mindless kicking. And the method of repetitio is reinforced with pressure testing and feedback. This is how you learn to apply what you have learned via the repetition. Theory vs. reality.

 

[Jimmythebull]

Don't over think things. A roundhouse is a roundhouse regardless of the target. The details of chamber, pivot, angle, and striking surface are all just variables that vary depending on circumstance.

Can you post a youtube video of this?
Pictures speak a thousand words. A head kick please.
Thanks

 

[isshinryuronin]

I get the perfection thing & the repetitions so not disagreeing there but from my experiences what´s trained in a dojo is rarely so crisp & clean in a real fight.

This is absolutely true. And something every martial artist must keep in mind. Maybe 30% of a practiced technique is lost in a real fight due to adrenalin and the heat of battle.

Let's say a technique done in a real fight must be at a quality of 7 (on a scale of 1-10) to be effective. Given a 30% loss, the technique must be practiced with a quality of 10 in mind. Starting out at a 10, being degraded to a 7 will still do the job.

This is why every repetition in practice must strive for perfection (think of it as overkill) and not done mindlessly and half-heartedly. If one practices this way, he will not have to worry about skill loss in a real fight. "Sweat more in the dojo, bleed less in the street."

 

[punisher73]

A rose is a rose by any other name.....

I don't think the name really matters as long as they understand the time/place and how to apply the body weapon.

I have also seen wheel kick and roundhouse used in karate based styles if you really need to put a different name on it, you could use "wheel kick" for the higher levels.

 

[Jimmythebull]

"Sweat more in the dojo, bleed less in the street."

very true... I remember a Boxing training telling us train hard now or you´ll get hurt in the ring. was a good incentive !