Responsibilities?

[Hand Sword]

Years back, At the end of a long black belt test, the senior in charge lectured the new BB's about the responsibilities they must now be aware of in and around the dojo. It was said that they should never refuse to help their instructors when called upon, from teaching the kids, to cleaning the dojo, and everything in between. Volunteerism was the key point to focus on. I remember this going on back in the day, where the dojo was a family atmosphere. Now, it seems that it's gone for the most part. People come in, take their classes, and go home. The instructor seems to be left high and dry most times, as people have the I'm busy attitude, and, I pay the money, that's good enough approach. It seems that very few follow the advice and almost laugh outright when it's explained.

Considering the times, the expense and time required are the responsibilities of higher ranking students still a reasonable request, or is it pay as you go, in and out, the way to go? Should the volunteerism be part of the responsibilites of a Black Belt?

 

[MJS]

Years back, At the end of a long black belt test, the senior in charge lectured the new BB's about the responsibilities they must now be aware of in and around the dojo. It was said that they should never refuse to help their instructors when called upon, from teaching the kids, to cleaning the dojo, and everything in between. Volunteerism was the key point to focus on. I remember this going on back in the day, where the dojo was a family atmosphere. Now, it seems that it's gone for the most part. People come in, take their classes, and go home. The instructor seems to be left high and dry most times, as people have the I'm busy attitude, and, I pay the money, that's good enough approach. It seems that very few follow the advice and almost laugh outright when it's explained.

Considering the times, the expense and time required are the responsibilities of higher ranking students still a reasonable request, or is it pay as you go, in and out, the way to go? Should the volunteerism be part of the responsibilites of a Black Belt?

I don't see why it wouldn't be a resonable request to have some of the senior students or the asst. instructors, help in cleaning up. During the class for example, if pads, bags, etc. were used, I'd have the students assist in putting things back.

While some may have the attitude that you describe above, in which they feel because they may be busy and they pay so thats good enough, they should keep in mind that while it may not be their school as far as ownership, its still 'their' school in a sense. Its a place that they enjoy coming to, enjoy working out, etc., so why not take part in keeping it neat?

Mike

 

[stone_dragone]

Its a good idea in the same way that helping my mother with dishes when my own family goes there for a visit is a good idea; in the same way that helping my father mow the lawn when I'm up there.

When junior students see the black belts helping out, they realize that they aren't above it either and help, too.

In my teachers school up PA way, it started as the students makeing sure that our instructor didn't have to do the little things.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Every school I've been a part of it was always expected that the kyu ranks volunteer for just about everything. Sweeping the floor, putting away equipment, emptying the trash, and so forth. The higher kyu ranks would take charge of the lower ones in this. I always thought that was a good thing as it started developing leadership in the students getting close to black.

 

[PictonMA]

In my dojo at the end of EVERY day the mats are swept, the garbages are emptied the mirrors are cleaned (if needed) and the carpets are vacuumed (this is done once a week), equipment that was used is wiped down and put away.

Students that don't want to help are told to anyways, those that continue to refuse are told they are not welcome to come back.

Additionally, shoes are placed neatly on the shelves (toes facing out), clothes / bags are neatly hung in the change rooms, things are in their place always.

It might be anal retentive or overly obsessive / compulsive but to me the small effort made to put things in their right place is indicative of a disciplined mind, which in the end is one of the principal purposes of studying the martial arts (and I don't care if its TMA / MMA).

My 2cents

*edit*

It's important to note that EVERYONE helps out with all of these things - from the newest member to the senior students to the chief instructor.

 

[Tarot]

It's important to note that EVERYONE helps out with all of these things - from the newest member to the senior students to the chief instructor.

This is the opinion I hold. It shouldn't just be senior belts, it should be everyone who trains should help with taking care of the dojo. It really bugs me when I see people who do not.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

If the environement is right and everyone cares about each other like a family then generally everyone pitches in! Without the need to remind in any fashion. The difficulty is creating that family environment in a really large commercial school. In smaller schools you generally do not have this problem.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I prefer the "old school" method my original teacher used. You pay for your lessons until you are a Black Belt instructor because most people wanted to "get to Black Belt" when they started. After achieving Black Belt you don't pay money anymore. You pay by volunteering your time to help out others, clean the school, set-up events, etc.

 

[Grenadier]

In many systems, as a student becomes more advanced, it becomes a matter of not only seeing what he can take from the system, but also what can he give back to the system. Helping keep a dojo well-regulated is but one such way that someone can give back to the system.

 

[Carol]

As well-intended as it is, it may be illegal.

Unless the dojo is recognized as a bona-fide charitable organization with public service, religious or humanitarian objectives, to have people work without pay in the dojo is likely a violation of U.S. Fair Labor Standards Act that stipulates the minimum wage that must be performed to workers, as well as the appropriate state law that governs as such by the state Department of Labor.

 

[Ping898]

Well I firmly believe that you should help out if you can, I don't hold it against anyone who can't. You talk about the dojo "family" but times have changed in the home "family" as well. I used to train with one women, who was a working mother of 3 young kids with a husband who worked nights and the 1.5 hours she had to drive to training, train and go home where literally all she could spare or afford. If someone isn't helping out as they maybe should be ask why, and if the answer appears to be a selfish, cause I pay to train and that's it, then yes I understand the attitude of don't come back, but sometimes, there are legitimate reasons why people can not give anymore of their time to the dojo than they do and I don't think someone should be denied the opportunity to train or have the fact that they can not help out outside of class help against them in their training just cause they have family commitments that need to take precedence.

 

[stone_dragone]

Every school I've been a part of it was always expected that the kyu ranks volunteer for just about everything. Sweeping the floor, putting away equipment, emptying the trash, and so forth. The higher kyu ranks would take charge of the lower ones in this. I always thought that was a good thing as it started developing leadership in the students getting close to black.

In my teacher's school in PA, it is almost a point of pride for the kyu students to be able to get the work done before the black belts can even think about doing it.

I remember going home for a visit and trying to help clean up and getting respectfully pushed out of the way so I didn't have to do it. But then again, I rememebr doing the same thing when I was a brown belt, too!

 

[IcemanSK]

I prefer the "old school" method my original teacher used. You pay for your lessons until you are a Black Belt instructor because most people wanted to "get to Black Belt" when they started. After achieving Black Belt you don't pay money anymore. You pay by volunteering your time to help out others, clean the school, set-up events, etc.

This was my experience as well. With the belt, came responsibility of teaching, cleaning, whatever is needed.....& we didn't pay for class, anymore. Sometimes we had to be reminded of those responibilities (cuz we were high school or college-age) by our instructor. To the original poster, I'd say if its no longer an atmosphere of "black belts having a sense of responsibility toward to school" its only because the instructor has allowed it to be so. Perhaps he/she has become dependent on the black belts to teach & is afraid they will leave if the responsibility bar is raised to what it used to be. It's understandable, but not helpful to the overall desire to develop the school as a family. In families, everyone has responsibilities & expectations put on them. (Heck, I remember the day I got my 1st Dan at 17....My dad had my take out the garbage that night & told me, "You might be a black belt at the school, but you still have to take out the garbage here." ) Its important that everyone help out. Otherwise its just another health club, not a family.

 

[Bigshadow]

I like how Forrest Morgan put it, in his book.

We carry an obligation or on from our instructors. The small amount we pay for class is nothing relative to the how much of their life they have given to learn enough to teach. So the instruction is worth far more than the money we pay. We carry that on as part of our giri to others.

I wouldn't call it responsibility, I prefer to look at it as obligation.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I like how Forrest Morgan put it, in his book.

We carry an obligation or on from our instructors. The small amount we pay for class is nothing relative to the how much of their life they have given to learn enough to teach. So the instruction is worth far more than the money we pay. We carry that on as part of our giri to others.

I wouldn't call it responsibility, I prefer to look at it as obligation.

Nicely put!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Well I firmly believe that you should help out if you can, I don't hold it against anyone who can't. You talk about the dojo "family" but times have changed in the home "family" as well. I used to train with one women, who was a working mother of 3 young kids with a husband who worked nights and the 1.5 hours she had to drive to training, train and go home where literally all she could spare or afford. If someone isn't helping out as they maybe should be ask why, and if the answer appears to be a selfish, cause I pay to train and that's it, then yes I understand the attitude of don't come back, but sometimes, there are legitimate reasons why people can not give anymore of their time to the dojo than they do and I don't think someone should be denied the opportunity to train or have the fact that they can not help out outside of class help against them in their training just cause they have family commitments that need to take precedence.

Very good point!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I like how Forrest Morgan put it, in his book.

We carry an obligation or on from our instructors. The small amount we pay for class is nothing relative to the how much of their life they have given to learn enough to teach. So the instruction is worth far more than the money we pay. We carry that on as part of our giri to others.

I wouldn't call it responsibility, I prefer to look at it as obligation.

There you go with that whole "making sense thing" again! Good stuff!

 

[tradrockrat]

well I hope I don't sound like a bad saturday matinee, but my instructor taught me at his house, or a parking lot, or the local community college Gym (where he was a teacher), etc., so there was no "dojo" so to speak of.

Instead, I cleaned his garage, mowed his lawn, cleaned the dog kennels, built fences and whatever else he wanted me to do. When I became a brown belt, he took on new students (I was his only one until then) and I taught them under his supervision. When I became a black belt, I took over his college self defense classes as an adjunct faculty while he had his knees replaced (due to a childhood accident) and acted as his "body" when he taught seminars and such.

All in all, I feel I got WAY more out of it than I put into it, and I am always looking for ways to give back



EDIT: Hey! I just got my Brown Belt here in MT!

 

[Jimi]

Tradrockrat, You still outrank me in his system, and I outrank you in JFGF/JKD. I would still sweep a floor for you, or clean Thai pads/heavy bag etc... That's just my respect for a brother. Thank God I never had to clean the kennels though, I was spared that chore. LOL. PEACE

 

[Elayna]

In any dojo I have been too it has just been understood that you help out. From my Judo dojo, to the Aikido dojo and all the others I was at. Even when I was taking classes at the college I went to. We helped roll out and roll up the mats. Not because we were required to, just because we wanted to and if we didnt we seemed tottaly lame. LOL
As far as laws go, well, that can get very complicated. But there are loop holes to ever law. LOL.

But, my main argument to this is...
If they are not humble enough to do the things the instructor himself/herself does, then maybe they dont deserve that belt. If the lower ranks are not willing to do as the instructor does, even the dirtiest of jobs from the most "pleasing" of jobs, then maybe they need to start over.
Because by not helping the instructor to me that is saying
"im better then you" and if that is the case then why are they even there?
They like to help out when it makes them look good right? Or when it suits them, but not when it doesnt? I mean come on!!!
Helping out should be sign of respect, honor, and just being nice. I mean goodness you know.
Anyways....LOL