reloads, reloads and more reloads

[Tgace]

There's the basics, then theres the basics of the basics and then there are the different variations on how you do the basics. I just got out of my garage after filming a few variations of the emergency reload. One would think, "how many ways are there to do a friggin emergency reload?" Well let me tell you.

This is how I was taught how to do it by my department back when I was a rookie. Physically strip the empty. Reload, then overhand sling-shot the slide. The reason for the selection of this technique was based on a known issue with Glock magazines. Some versions of the magazine were known to not drop free consistently. Rather than juggle a mag in the off-hand and then try to strip the hung-up magazine it was decided to strip the empty out before grabbing a fresh magazine. The slingshot technique was chosen because it is a gross motor movement, which was argued to be a better choice for a positive release under stress and possibly sweaty or blood soaked hands vs. trying to hit the small slide release.With the advent of the newer Glock magazine...the ones with the metal tabs that contact the magazine release...

The drop-free issue is no longer much of a problem. So if you remove the "strip the old magazine" step you get this...

​

On the slide release issue; I decided to try a "strip..reload...slide release" and a "drop free..reload...slide release" to compare for speed:

​

AND

Undoubtedly there is a speed advantage to the "drop free" and "slide release" technique, but I suppose that for the training of the average cop they are more skilled techniques with the potential for bobbling, dropping mags or missing slide levers. The one you choose depends on how much training you are willing to put into it.​

 

[Sanke]

This is coming from a total gun noob here, but I'm curious: What is the difference between the '

sling-shot' and 'slide release' action? Don't both chamber a round regardless, or is the first one more reliable?
I'm sure this is a pretty basic question, but I'm here to learn, so what the heck ​

 

[jks9199]

This is coming from a total gun noob here, but I'm curious: What is the difference between the '

sling-shot' and 'slide release' action? Don't both chamber a round regardless, or is the first one more reliable?
I'm sure this is a pretty basic question, but I'm here to learn, so what the heck ​

Some of this depends on the gun -- but the slide release is a fine motor issue, that may not work well in gloves, and MAY not pick up a round. It's less energy and a shorter motion, and I have heard from people saying it doesn't pick up a round sometimes. The slingshot is gross motor, and will pick up a round; after all, you're simply imitating the action of the gun when you pull the trigger. For what it's worth -- I shoot Glocks almost exclusively. Often, a good solid tap to ensure a new magazine is in will release the slide lock, and when that happens, I've never had it fail to pick up a round. But I practice slingshotting it anyway, because I consider the first a gift, not a guarantee.

 

[Tgace]

A recent FBI shooting school I attended is now recommending the slide release technique. Then there is the debate between over hand slingshot and the pinch technique.....IMO, practice and pick the one that works best for you.

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[Tgace]

Something I didn't address in my initial post was the rethinking of the "gross motor/fine motor" mantra many trainers repeat without much thought. Rooted in the work of Bruce Siddle the idea is that under stress your fine motor skills degrade. While I don't disagree with the premise I think a more accurate statement would be that "untrained motor skills will degrade under stress"...fine AND gross. Guns have numerous buttons, levers, switches and triggers that require "fine motor skills" to manipulate. I never really bought into the concept that hitting a slide release was that much different from pressing the magazine release or flipping a safety lever. If you try it in combat when you haven't really practiced it in training, sure you are rolling the Murphy dice. I have seen some shooters "ride the slide" doing the slingshot technique and induce a stoppage. Training....training....training.

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[jks9199]

But would you want to try to find the slide stop lever on most guns on a cold night, whether or not you're wearing gloves? Glock is still encouraging the sling shot in their armorer's class, at least last time I went through it, even if you've put an extended slide stop lever on.

 

[Tgace]

But would you want to try to find the slide stop lever on most guns on a cold night, whether or not you're wearing gloves? Glock is still encouraging the sling shot in their armorer's class, at least last time I went through it, even if you've put an extended slide stop lever on.

It was a winters night in my garage and I was wearing gloves in my vid.

Many trainers like Vickers, Falla, magpul etc are going to the slide release.

If I had an unfamiliar pistol...sure I'd go to slingshot. But even that old internet gun forum meme...how often are you packing a strange pistol? A pickup from an oponent? Picked up a reload too???

Not addressing you directly JKS...just ruminating aloud.

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[jks9199]

Not taking it personally at all... I'm not the sort of DT or Firearms Instructor who feels that the student/shooter must do everything exactly according to the book, unless it's something that must be done that way, or there's a reason for it. So, on the range, teaching rooks, we teach one way (slingshot) -- but once they're out of the academy, whatever they practice and whatever works so long as it gets the job done, and isn't dangerous. Like I said, in my experience, a good slap on the mag with a Glock often releases the slide lock -- and, when that's happened, I've never had a problem with it not picking up the round.

 

[Tgace]

Agreed. Unfortunately not enough coppers are interested in training beyond PD range time.

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[Carol]

Something I didn't address in my initial post was the rethinking of the "gross motor/fine motor" mantra many trainers repeat without much thought. Rooted in the work of Bruce Siddle the idea is that under stress your fine motor skills degrade. While I don't disagree with the premise I think a more accurate statement would be that "untrained motor skills will degrade under stress"...fine AND gross

Wow Tom...that is an excellent point to bring up.

I was recently dealing with a (network) emergency at work, and sweating freaking bullets trying to solve an issue before an event occurred that would have knocked the entire network offline. A business card that I had pulled out had fallen on the floor. Static might have caused the card to cling a bit to the tile. My fingers felt stiff as a board, I just couldn't find a way to pick it up, and ended up calling my counterpart to grab the card. My counterpart (who was not in the thick of the emergency) was able to pick up the card without issue.

OK, fine motor skills can go in an adrenaline dump -- that thought actually crossed my mind. But what I didn't realize - as soon I heard my counterpart acknowledge that he'd be right there, I returned my focus to my monitor and my frenetic typing on the keyboard. I type pretty damn fast, even under pressure. Perhaps when the heat is on I get a bit slower or sloppier, but its still pretty darn fast. If my fine motor control degraded across the board, I would have just as much trouble with the keyboard as I had trying to get that stupid business card off the floor....but that wasn't the case. Years of working in high tech have solidly trained my typing skills. It really is training that is key.

 

[Tgace]

Exactly Carol...what's interesting is how many "fine motor skills" are involved in modern combat situations. Pilots, tankers, radio operators, even plain old infantrymen, have all sorts of buttons, switches, knobs, etc to operate while being shot at. Its all about training.

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[Buka]

There's the basics, then theres the basics of the basics and then there are the different variations on how you do the basics. I just got out of my garage after filming a few variations of the emergency reload. One would think, "how many ways are there to do a friggin emergency reload?" Well let me tell you.

This is how I was taught how to do it by my department back when I was a rookie. Physically strip the empty. Reload, then overhand sling-shot the slide. The reason for the selection of this technique was based on a known issue with Glock magazines. Some versions of the magazine were known to not drop free consistently. Rather than juggle a mag in the off-hand and then try to strip the hung-up magazine it was decided to strip the empty out before grabbing a fresh magazine. The slingshot technique was chosen because it is a gross motor movement, which was argued to be a better choice for a positive release under stress and possibly sweaty or blood soaked hands vs. trying to hit the small slide release.With the advent of the newer Glock magazine...the ones with the metal tabs that contact the magazine release...

The drop-free issue is no longer much of a problem. So if you remove the "strip the old magazine" step you get this...

​

On the slide release issue; I decided to try a "strip..reload...slide release" and a "drop free..reload...slide release" to compare for speed:

​

AND

Undoubtedly there is a speed advantage to the "drop free" and "slide release" technique, but I suppose that for the training of the average cop they are more skilled techniques with the potential for bobbling, dropping mags or missing slide levers. The one you choose depends on how much training you are willing to put into it.​

Bravo! Nicely done.

 

[mmartist]

I am not a noob as it comes to firearms, or so I thought so. This really gave me something to think about and I think I will have to do some learning.