Relaxed fighting and sparing in the flow state.

[Anarax]

Didn't sound like they cared that much if they only matched Bellator's offer and didn't try to beat it by a lot to get the contract.

In business you try and keep costs down, same thing goes for employers/fighters. You want to get additional employees with competitive salaries, but they can't be absurdly more. If they did that for all their employees their profits would decrease.

That's also called running around.

Running away to the opposite side of the octagon is running away. Changing angles, transitioning through different ranges and evading/parrying your opponents attacks to set up counters isn't running away.

The UFC is desperate and not making good money. But he still wasn't worth them offering a lot of money. Good riddance.

If they're losing money then what I said about decreasing costs is more relevant, yet they were still willing to pay a lot to keep him.

So is McGrogor, but he doesn't run around all day.

There are different types of counter-fighters, everyone fighting the same would be boring.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But then Kata might be a bad idea as it may cause you to start thinking about using patterns during real fights and/or hard sparring when it really counts.

If you're thinking about the pattern, you're not in that flow state. In flow state, there's room for thought, but it's not usually thought about the thing you're doing, exactly. It might be a conscious recognition of something about the situation, but it's not about the action you're taking.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I know, and very glad he's gone from the UFC.



His style is running around all day, looking for that perfect, usually SINGLE countering potshot. There are Boxers who do this in Boxing, and they're boring as hell too and rarely gets any fights. He rarely commits to an exchange unless he go trapped while running....or it's around at the last 30 seconds when the horn's about to blow so if he gets taken down, he'd be saved. This is generally why people boo him, unless he knocks someone out. He generally gets booed constantly while he's fighting.

Of course Machida's going to tout his Shotokan Karate, that's his family's legacy. He's not going slap his father & family name in the face. But it doesn't mean that new, aspiring fighters are going to flock to Shotokan Karate in order to become great fighters. They go to Boxing, Wrestling, BJJ, and Muay Thai, in general. Children's Karate classes are what pay the bills, but it doesn't mean that people want to watch that.

I've never much cared whether a fighter was boring or not, more whether his approach was effective.

 

[paitingman]

@FriedRice it's just a shot in the dark, but I think if you just straight up said you hate Machida and Wonderboy and their styles because you just aren't a fan of their approach and favor another mentality likes this guy or that person, whose approach and methods are similar to yours, no one would really argue with you.

it's okay to dislike the Karate fighting style and favor others and just leave it at that

 

[Tony Dismukes]

And also one of the most boring fighters ever, that gets booed during his fights and usually afterward. Thank God he's no longer in the UFC.

Speaking of boring fighters. Notice how he doesn't Karate chop like the way he trains kata when he fights for real?

Personally I find Machida and Thompson to be exciting and dynamic fighters to watch. Given that I'm a BJJ/Muay Thai instructor, I don't think I have any prejudice in favor of Karate.

It's fine that you don't enjoy watching them. Everybody has their own tastes and preferences. However you seem to have switched topics. Your original suggestion was that kata is a waste of time for someone learning how to fight, not that it makes fighters boring for the audience.

I'm agnostic as to whether their kata practice has had positive or negative effects on the development of Machida's and Thompson's fighting ability. The fact remains that they are both world-class fighters in the modern MMA world. If they feel that kata helps them ... I don't know if they're right, but I'm certainly not arrogant enough to tell them they're wrong.

Would have been nice if you pointed out which Karate fighters use Karate Kata during their fights.

Fighters don't perform kata during their fights. They also don't hit speed bags, jump rope, or do pushups. Kata are training tools. Once you're in a fight, the time for training tools is past.

 

[Flying Crane]

Learning lengthy Kata is still a waste of time if you're training to fight. To earn belts, then it's fine.

Nobody says you must do kata. You can train quite well without kata. Sounds like you don’t want to train kata. That’s ok. Don’t train kata.

Feel free to ignore those who do train kata.

Is there anything else you want to discuss about kata, or does this cover it?

 

[pdg]

So arts with no kata are better and faster.

Say, boxing.

So, "jab, cross, hook, uppercut".

4 point kata.


Shadow boxing? Watch anyone do it, lots of bits of repetition I'll wager, much like a bunch of mini kata strung together...

Mitt work - coach led freestyle kata.

Yeah, useless.

No point practicing combinations.

 

[FriedRice]

Nobody says you must do kata. You can train quite well without kata. Sounds like you don’t want to train kata. That’s ok. Don’t train kata.

Feel free to ignore those who do train kata.

Is there anything else you want to discuss about kata, or does this cover it?

Yea, I think Kata is antiquated, waste of time but great for selling belt promotions to pay the bills.

 

[FriedRice]

What's bad about running around besides the entertainment factor?

It may be entertaining if it were track & field, but this is combat.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yea, I think Kata is antiquated, waste of time but great for selling belt promotions to pay the bills.

Have we covered all the bases then? Got that off your chest, have you? Weight lifted off your shoulders? Feel superior to everyone else?

Good for you.

 

[FriedRice]

In business you try and keep costs down, same thing goes for employers/fighters. You want to get additional employees with competitive salaries, but they can't be absurdly more. If they did that for all their employees their profits would decrease.

Nice try, but matching the amount = don't care either way. Offering more = the next logical step of negotiating for something deemed valuable. How does offering more, always equate to "absurdly more"?

Running away to the opposite side of the octagon is running away. Changing angles, transitioning through different ranges and evading/parrying your opponents attacks to set up counters isn't running away.

Avoiding exciting engagements often and clearly waiting for the last 30 seconds of each round to commit to engagement = running away.

If they're losing money then what I said about decreasing costs is more relevant, yet they were still willing to pay a lot to keep him.

No, offering the same = don't care either way.

There are different types of counter-fighters, everyone fighting the same would be boring.

Then why do these same Karatechoppers such as Machida and Wonderbread, often get booed so loudly that the mic can't even pick up what they say in their cage interviews...and they fight very similarly with their type of running away? What a coincidence?

 

[FriedRice]

@FriedRice it's just a shot in the dark, but I think if you just straight up said you hate Machida and Wonderboy and their styles because you just aren't a fan of their approach and favor another mentality likes this guy or that person, whose approach and methods are similar to yours, no one would really argue with you.

it's okay to dislike the Karate fighting style and favor others and just leave it at that

I'm answering what people are responding to me, directly.

 

[FriedRice]

Personally I find Machida and Thompson to be exciting and dynamic fighters to watch. Given that I'm a BJJ/Muay Thai instructor, I don't think I have any prejudice in favor of Karate.

It's fine that you don't enjoy watching them. Everybody has their own tastes and preferences. However you seem to have switched topics. Your original suggestion was that kata is a waste of time for someone learning how to fight, not that it makes fighters boring for the audience.

I'm agnostic as to whether their kata practice has had positive or negative effects on the development of Machida's and Thompson's fighting ability. The fact remains that they are both world-class fighters in the modern MMA world. If they feel that kata helps them ... I don't know if they're right, but I'm certainly not arrogant enough to tell them they're wrong.

Well for Machida, his brand of Karate is his family's legacy. It would be a slap in the face to his father and his family name if he said Karate sucked *** or something. He will continue to teach Karate kata until the day he dies & pass it on to his children. It's just how it's done and it pays the bills to sell belts. Many people are scared to fight and just want a curriculum to get pay for belt promotions. It's a win-win situation. I'm just saying that it's a waste of time if you just want to fight, and fight soon.

Fighters don't perform kata during their fights. They also don't hit speed bags, jump rope, or do pushups. Kata are training tools. Once you're in a fight, the time for training tools is past.

You think doing push ups is the same as kata? Kata is like shadowboxing and neither is like doing pushups.

 

[FriedRice]

So arts with no kata are better and faster.

Say, boxing.

So, "jab, cross, hook, uppercut".

4 point kata.


Shadow boxing? Watch anyone do it, lots of bits of repetition I'll wager, much like a bunch of mini kata strung together...

Mitt work - coach led freestyle kata.

Yeah, useless.

No point practicing combinations.

Punching at the hips, then retracting to the hips while standing in horse stance or whatever.....let see you fight like that.

 

[FriedRice]

Have we covered all the bases then? Got that off your chest, have you? Weight lifted off your shoulders? Feel superior to everyone else?

Good for you.

Are you saying that it's a waste of time to talk to you?

 

[paitingman]

It may be entertaining if it were track & field, but this is combat.

Is the entertainment factor your main issue?

 

[Flying Crane]

Are you saying that it's a waste of time to talk to you?

Let’s see... in the time I’ve been on this site, probably 500 people have come through here and said kata is a waste of time. I bet every one of them thought they were enlightening the masses and saying something we have never heard before.

Do what you want in your training. Don’t worry about what other people do. It does not affect you.

And then grow up.

 

[FriedRice]

Is the entertainment factor your main issue?

If I'm paying to watch a fight, then yes.

 

[FriedRice]

Let’s see... in the time I’ve been on this site, probably 500 people have come through here and said kata is a waste of time. I bet every one of them thought they were enlightening the masses and saying something we have never heard before.

Do what you want in your training. Don’t worry about what other people do. It does not affect you.

And then grow up.

The why do you care so much about what I say and keep typing essays about it?

 

[pdg]

Punching at the hips, then retracting to the hips while standing in horse stance or whatever.....let see you fight like that.

Typically, that's not a kata - that's a leg conditioning exercise.