real life self defense techniques

[the_kicking_fiend]

In an actual self defense situation, I think it would be interesting to see what techniques everyone would consider using? Would you use any kicks? Would you use any punches? If so what techniques?

Personally, I trust only three kicks for self defense and that's the front kick to the groin, sweep and (some of you will disagree with this one) roundhouse kick. I say roundhouse but it's a variation on the typical roundhouse where you don't twist your backfoot round at all, its difficult to initially learn but so powerful and fast I would trust it for a fight.

Punches I think would be the general way to go though. Thoughts anyone?

d

 

[Marginal]

I'll be a jerk and say it'd depend on the situation.

Just based on what tends to come out in sparring (terrible measure of SD situations in some respects I realize, but you fight as you train and all that) I really like the side kick. I use it a lot to push people away when they try to close. (Especially fun when people try to crowd by jumping in and they find themselves bing pushed back) I like the roundhouse kick (I'd have to do full rotation though. Can't generate penetration power witout getting the hips into the mix personally) and the front kick too. Nothing fancy in regards to hands though. Outside of straight punches, probably wouldn't do much there.

Either way, I'd be more interested in getting out of there as soon as I had a chance vs trading attacks...

 

[karatekid1975]

Believe it or not, I used a backfist in a SD situation. It landed on the jerks peek (nose). Then I followed up with a hammerfist to the nuts and then a side kick to the ribs. Simple but affective

I would use a low roundhouse or front kick no higher than the gut. Now that I've been doing more standing grappling (as well as on the ground) and self defense against various attacks, I think I'd use come-along techniques. They are easy to apply and they are fairly quick (for me anyways). I'd prolly follow up with a pressure point strike and/or sweep/throw.

Then again, like Marginal said, it would depend on the situation mostly.

 

[Kempojujutsu]

My favorite is the all mighty knee. If I am in close, and that is where I like to fight. The Knee, stomp. I like using open hand techniques, and hammer fist strikes. Then any and all of my jujutsu techniques from after the stun.

 

[glad2bhere]

My injunction to my students is "don't send anything my way that you don't want broke".

As a Hapkido teacher I get more than my share of folks who want to know what I would do "if....". The question usually sets some sort of circumstances such as "what if I grabbed you like this....." or "what if I choked you like this...." My rejoinder to that is "why would I let you do that?". I have my Dynamic Sphere and I am enjoined by He-Who-is-greater-than-I to take responsibility for that area. Why would I knowing let someone violate my Dynamic Sphere AND THEN set the ground rules for how I respond? If someone grabs me in a real-enough way, why wouldn't I respond in kind by damaging that person in a real-enough way? Most of the time when I react to such a situation the response is "Damn! That Hurt! Lighten-up! I was just asking a question!". The fact is that martial arts is not a parlor game or pissing contest where egos compete with one-another to one-up or one-down each other.

You asked what my technique is in a SD situation and this is my answer. Its not a kick or a strike, a lock, pin or throw. It is the attitude that I have trained for a few years and I know what I know and will respond with maximum S-D to the attackers weakest point.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[arnisador]

It seems like a common answer is "I'd use a HKD technique" since it' sso often taught alongside TKD as the "self-defense" portion.

 

[Zepp]

Originally posted by glad2bhere
It is the attitude that I have trained for a few years and I know what I know and will respond with maximum S-D to the attackers weakest point.

I like that answer.

Keeping in mind that my response will change to adapt to the situation, I think that I would consider an attacker's legs and head to be my primary targets at the beginning of an encounter. I might attack with a kick, my knee, a hand or elbow strike, or even a makeshift weapon if there's one within my reach. I tend to think of a sidekick to the knee as being a fast way to end a fight, but whether or not I would use it in a particular situation isn't something I can sensibly plan out ahead of time. I might just as easily respond to an attack with a barstool to the head.

 

[MA-Caver]

From all my experience in SD throughout my (public) school years to life on the mean streets of Washington D.C. and Dallas and a few other places. I've learned this: All the fancy kicks, moves, holds, punches one can learn aren't going to be very effective unless you are prepared mentally to use them and adapt to whatever situation you find yourself in.
You're speaking SD and I read it as being attacked by a mugger/robber or similar antagonist. Realistic you ask? Try this; walk around your town with the mind set of a criminal seeking to do bodily harm (an attack) to someone. Where would you do it at? Then go back to yourself and ask would I be caught (dead) in such a place and if I am there and am attacked what SD/MA techniques could I use here?
Remember as the criminal you want to be nearly invisible and to be in a spot where you can close the distance as quickly as possible and surprise your "victim". Look around these familiar haunts of yours and see where possible hiding places can be. Next time you're there your eyes should go to these areas automatically and (try to) catch someone hiding in the shadows. Where are there places that you can RUN to? What walls, columns, doors can you use to help brace yourself to be more effective? What is the floor/ground like? Clean swept or littered with broken glass and debris here and there? Can you fall on this ground/floor without getting injured?
What about if there is someone with you? A loved one(adult or child), a (non-MA) friend? Where can they go so they're not going to be affected by your counter attacks? ....such is one of the hazards of a nice round-house kick...will they be in the way? What if they're grabbed from behind and not you?
What-do-you-do? Things to think about.

All of this is "brain-training". Where-ever it is you live/work/play you MUST be aware of your surroundings and take the realistic path. You're a civilized human being but there are uncivilized (untrained) brutes waiting for the unwary. They will not be so neat and clean in their attacks as someone in the dojo.

Sitting around with MA Fantasies about doing that beautiful Van-damme round house kick to an mugger's face isn't going to get you or anyone anywhere. Very few "professional" muggers aren't going to place themselves in that situation. Unless they're terribly stupid. And IMO anyone who attacks anyone without knowing what the other person knows is terribly stupid.

Effective kicks that I've seen described here on this thread (so far)have been "the all powerful knee", front kicks to the groin and so forth. Kicks that I know of from Kenpo are very effective in close-quarter combat situations... which is what any street attack actually is.
From a realistic stand point there are dozens of different techniques to ward off an attacker. Which one you use (and I'll be a jerk as well here... ) depends upon the situation.
Broadening your experience and training in several different arts will go a long way. Personally I like HKD, Wing Chun and Kenpo because my personal experience tells me these arts will work best on the streets where I live(d). It'll differ from where you live.

:asian:

 

[jukado1]

MACaver: if you keep coming up with such well thought out answers, and won't call anybody names your probably going to be banned for raising the quality of this board.

 

[MA-Caver]

Originally posted by jukado1
MACaver: if you keep coming up with such well thought out answers, and won't call anybody names your probably going to be banned for raising the quality of this board.

Well uhh, if you want me to start calling folks names and stuff then I CAN start with you... lessee no, that's too raunchy and it WILL get me kicked off for sure...uhh how about.... nah not demeaning enough for you...but that isn't hard to do to begin with.
I know... (read your personal message...heh heh heh heh)

Thanks for the compliment.

:asian:

 

[celtic bhoy]

In my opinion you could only use a kick of sorts if you know a confrontation is imminant.

As most surprise attacks are full on from either behind or from the side, the best you can hope to do is punch and run.

If it becomes a grappling situation (as most attacks do) then I personally would use head,knees, elbows and if warranted gauging.

You do what it takes to survive.

celtic bhoy

 

[hardheadjarhead]

In an actual self defense situation, I think it would be interesting to see what techniques everyone would consider using? Would you use any kicks? Would you use any punches? If so what techniques?

The situation dictates the response. I'd use whatever was appropriate at the time. Kicks, punches, headbutts, thowing things, smacking them with a trash can lid, picking up a bottle, grabbing a bread knife out of the butcher block in my kitchen...

The question is far too general to be answered properly. It isn't something you can narrow down to a few favorite techniques. A "self defense situation" could mean a wide variety of scenarios. Let's look at the variables that determine techniques and their effectiveness:

How big is the attacker?

How many attackers? How big are they?

How big am I?

What are they wearing? Will their clothes provide them any protection? Can I use their clothes to choke them?

What am I wearing? I sleep in my birthday suit at night...did they break into my home at four in the morning? Am I wearing tight pants? Am I wearing boots, dress shoes? Will that effect how I kick on certain types of surfaces?

What is the weather like, if we're outside? Is it icey? Will snow and ice effect my ability to kick?

Where are we? Outside? In a car? In an elevator? A stairwell? A bar? Are we on a slope? Rocky ground? A beach? Hip deep in water at the beach? (I saw a fight like that in Hawaii...it happens)

Are they under the influence? If so, what?

Am I under the influence?

Are they armed? With what?

Am I armed? With what?

Is there anything nearby they (or I) can pick up to use in this conflict?

Am I healthy? If not, do I have the flu? Am I recovering from knee surgery? Am I old? Young?

Am I with anyone? Do I have a child with me? A spouse? An aged parent? Does that effect my response?

Am I entitled to use deadly force as outlined in the laws of my state?

Do I have the proper emotional and mental strength to face up to the situation? Can I hurt truly hurt these people, if necessary? Am I slightly wimpy? Am I wired a tad too tight?

----------

Okay...now that I've gone over that, I'll tell you what I'd use in all of those situations. Its called "Monkey Picks The Plum From The Eagle's Claw". It was taught to me in the Shaolin temple by Master Moo Goo and Master Gai Pan.

It works every time, without fail. I'll teach it to you for an obscene amount of money. Paid up front, of course.


Regards,


Steve

 

[the_kicking_fiend]

I realise it depends on many different circumstances. You seem to place a lot of emphasis on size. I don't think really matters, it just intimidates someone whose not properly trained. Someone trained knows that everyone goes down with the pretty much the same amount force unless they're a Chinese grandmaster in Iron Face or something! I never let size scare me off because usually if they're big they depend on size to scare off people and win fights i.e. just using their weight to get you down quick. Sure their punches can hurt more if they use they're weight behind it, but not many people really do.

Also, I don't think my post really implied that the situation involved any weaponry.

What I'm trying to get at is that personally I would trust kicks less and punches more in general and wondering if perhaps anyone here feels confident enough with kicks (talking more above the waist here) that they would use them in combat?

d

 

[Marginal]

Size can matter. Case in point, Bob Sapp.

No magic iron shirt training there. The guy's just huge.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I think Size does matter, as I try to treat everyone as having as much or more training then myself. I am not huge like Mr. Sapp, I am just large.

I agree on average that not everyone will have the training I have, I just prefer to be pleasantly surprised versus Oh My gosh Surprised.

Just my approach though. It may not be for everyone.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

You seem to place a lot of emphasis on size. I don't think really matters, it just intimidates someone whose not properly trained. Someone trained knows that everyone goes down with the pretty much the same amount force

Yes, size does matter.

FWIW, I'm "someone trained" and I've never failed to note that the bigger, stronger guys can take a hit and deliver one better than the feathermerchants, regardless of their level of training. They also have better reach and can cover a lot more ground with one step...which can put them in your face with disconcerting speed.

This is why we have weight classes in boxing, judo, wrestling, BJJ and in NHB. Its also a reason why football players run on the large size and tend to take steroids. These are not self defense situations, granted, but they demonstrate an undeniable truth. "All things being equal, the big guy wins."

if they're big they depend on size to scare off people and win fights i.e. just using their weight to get you down quick. Sure their punches can hurt more if they use they're weight behind it, but not many people really do.

I beg to differ. While I knew one power lifter that couldn't break a board for lack of technique, I've also known many brutally powerful big guys who instinctively knew how to punch, with no training whatsoever.

Its a simple rule of conflict...mass is a good thing to have. Its the first law of war. Exceptions to the rule are few and far between. They are not the norm.

Also, I don't think my post really implied that the situation involved any weaponry.

Your post didn't imply any particular situation at all. You didn't provide a scenario. It said nothing more than "in an actual self defense situation". Pragmatically speaking that suggests a possible use of weapons by either the aggressor or the defender.



Regards,


Steve

 

[the_kicking_fiend]

Talking about the big guys again, I think they're are certain constants that size will not affect and through which your path to victory will always lie.

For example, take bone strength, to my knowledge bone strength does not greatly vary among individuals and so if you can do a sidekick hard and fast to the ribs I don't see what advantage a big guy would really have. He would feel it just the same and a broken rib is a nasty injury. I would say the same to the more deadly strikes like a fingertip thrust to the neck, uppercut breaking the jaw or palmheel into the chin/nose. These techniques are only practised by martial arts effectively and so gives us the edge.

As you know, fights on the street are not long affairs and usually end as soon as the first good blow comes down. I stand by my argument that a martial artist has a greater chance of striking his target accurately, and with great force, than a man who's only edge is size.

Martial artists (at least in my experience) condition and have taken hits before too. You say a big man could take a bigger hit, I really don't think their KO threshold is any bigger and as for lighter hits we shouldn't be throwing them.

Finally, I also believe that there commonly a trend between big people being slow people. The only exception is trained fighters or perhaps the odd unusual individual. I can see the big guys throw their hooks in sparring easier than I see the smaller guys throwing the same punch.

regards
d

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Steve and D:

I would add a qualifier about size FWIW.

I have noticed that many MA provide techniques that are perfect for dealing with larger people including eye strikes, ear strikes, elbow breaks and knee breaks. These work consistently. The trick seems to be getting smaller people to use them. I have noted that two things seem to restrain smaller people.

The first is the age-old admonition of not wanting to hurt or damage another human being. Even when threatened I have noticed people who have not taken their training to heart are impeded by this.

The second is failure. People are afraid to use what they have learned because they figure if they fail in successfully using the technique it will only piss the bigger guy off and make the consequences worse. Again I see this mostly from among people who do not take their training to heart and study seriously.

The techniques are there and are effective, but are not worth a damn if people won't use them purposefully.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Marginal]

Originally posted by the_kicking_fiend

For example, take bone strength, to my knowledge bone strength does not greatly vary among individuals and so if you can do a sidekick hard and fast to the ribs I don't see what advantage a big guy would really have.

IMO, there's a bit more to that potentially. A big guy (meaning, a msucular one) can probably absorb more punishment than a skinny guy that has less between his bones and the strike.

The big guy also has the advantage of being able to keep you outside via means of having a longer reach. I've gone against big slow guys that are very easy to get in on, but against a big guy who also happens to be fast and who knows what they're doing. Just being controlled by their superior weight and strength can cause a whole lotta problems that you simply don't have to deal with vs an opponent who is your size or smaller.

For example, in class once I was paired up with a woman who was about 5'1", and probably weighed around 110-120 at most. We were doing punching drills with pads, and I'd punch the pad, and almost knock her down. She'd punch the pad as hard as she could and she'd barely move my arm.

Doesn't mean a smaller opponent can't cause damage. Just means that they're at a disadvantage.

He would feel it just the same and a broken rib is a nasty injury. I would say the same to the more deadly strikes like a fingertip thrust to the neck, uppercut breaking the jaw or palmheel into the chin/nose.

Sure. If you can reach the targets. (Potentially extreme I know, but put someone at 5'5" against someone 6'5", and thery're gonna have a hard time throat thrusting, much less catching them with an uppercut.)

As you know, fights on the street are not long affairs and usually end as soon as the first good blow comes down. I stand by my argument that a martial artist has a greater chance of striking his target accurately, and with great force, than a man who's only edge is size.

That's true to a point IMO. A 110lb woman hitting a 350lb football player's probably not going to deter him no matter where she catches him. Even though he's untrained in a martial art.

 

[glad2bhere]

".......The big guy also has the advantage of being able to keep you outside via means of having a longer reach. I've gone against big slow guys that are very easy to get in on, but against a big guy who also happens to be fast and who knows what they're doing. Just being controlled by their superior weight and strength can cause a whole lotta problems that you simply don't have to deal with vs an opponent who is your size or smaller....."


I am having a hard time following the logic here. It sounds as though you are wanting to fight with a larger person. Why would you do that? I don't want to fight with a person. I want to end the fight. If I am on the outside, thats fine. I take off. If I am on the inside, thats ok too. Then I am in range and I start doing damage until he understands that he has made a mistake. As I tell my students, "don't send anything my way you don't want broken." Wherever I am in relation to the person I am going to break whatever I can get close to until he stops. The challenge is in taking responsibility for doing that kind of damge to protect oneself. What is being discussed seems to come back to the idea of participating in an on-going struggle over a period of time. I just can't see this approach to combat.

Best Wishes,

Bruce