Quitting taekwondo

PhotonGuy

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I don't usually agree with headhunter, but really it doesn't, it depends entirely on what value you decided to put on it, only you know achieving it has translated to something of tangable value , or if it's some validati of time/ money effort exspended

if it's of tangible value, then the belt is completly meaningless, its value lies else where, if it's just external validation then its completely meaningless, either way its meaningless, beyond the value you choose to attached to it for physiological reasons,,
when I pass a belt they give me a nicely embosed certificate, I throw it in the bin outside, its not even worth the trouble if carrying home
So I take it belts and rank don't mean much, if anything, to you.
 

Headhunter

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I don't usually agree with headhunter, but really it doesn't, it depends entirely on what value you decided to put on it, only you know achieving it has translated to something of tangable value , or if it's some validati of time/ money effort exspended

if it's of tangible value, then the belt is completly meaningless, its value lies else where, if it's just external validation then its completely meaningless, either way its meaningless, beyond the value you choose to attached to it for physiological reasons,,
when I pass a belt they give me a nicely embosed certificate, I throw it in the bin outside, its not even worth the trouble if carrying home
Agreed. I base my opinions on martial artists based on what they can actually /do/ what they wear around their waist. You can have all the Dan ranks in the world all the certificates all the embroided gis. But if you can't even perform a basic kata or spar at an effective level then what does that belt really mean. Belts are simply for promoting a guys club. Some guy saying I've been training for 20 years doesn't sound as good as saying I'm an 8th Dan black belt. Hey it brings in students fair enough I get the business sense behind it and yeah some 8th dans are good but some are guys who can't even throw a punch or a kick so really the actual belt doesn't mean anything when it comes to ability because the belt doesn't prove if your good or not due to the fact that some 8th dans are good and some aren't. Lol and I got accused of bullying people by saying that
 

jobo

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So I take it belts and rank don't mean much, if anything, to you.
no not at all, I know how good or bad I am at karate, what belt I have doesn't change that in anyway what sdo ever. if I value belt awards that means I'm putting someone else opinion of my abilities above my own opinion, if that award causes me to feel pride, or lack of belt makes me feel!l a failure. then I have given control of my emot?ions to a third party. my drive for success is internal, I don't need a carrot to spur me on to higher effort. therefore I don't collect carrots

I'm just as disregarding for awards that actually mean something, like pool trophies or football medals. if I won a pool championship I won it, I don't need a trophy to remind me I'm good at pool. if h a world champion trophy, I might value that( but probably not I'd forget and leave it on the bus) but a northwest of England regional champion trophy is just a mark of failure in my drive for world domination
 
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mrt2

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Thanks to everyone who responded. I didn't really expect that many replies.

To answer a few questions - I live in a pretty rural area. The next closest school is 30 minutes away, and as I already have a long commute to work, that distance doesn't seem feasible. As for training in TKD by myself, I have thought about that. However, I don't see the point in paying someone else for that. I do see the value in teaching, it's just not something I enjoy doing every time I go into class. On days that I had a stressful or busy time at work, I found it especially difficult to enjoy teaching. I miss the days of being able to go in and train hard after a long day.

I do need to talk to the instructor. I had a slight knee injury, so I haven't been in classes for a while. And I guess while I was rehabbing, I got to thinking about the past few months and how I wasn't happy with how TKD was going. Part of my irritation is he seems unwilling to break the classes up based on rank - not even just separate classes but if there was a red belt and a white belt in class, he'd have both do white belt material the entire class. Which is good for review, but not when it's happening class after class. A few of us used to stay late after one class to pactice the higher belt material together (by ourselves, no help from the instructor), but the change in my work schedule made it very difficult to stay that late.

I want to address you, the OP directly, since I went through something like this years ago, when I quit Tang Soo Do after training 3 years and just months before I was supposed to test for 1st Dan. And, I regretted that decision for years. Looking back, I think I was burned out and was looking for reasons to quit. What I should have done, was to meet with the head instructor and address with him my concerns before quitting.

35 years ago, I was a high school kid with a passion for martial arts. At my peak, I was training up to 5 nights a week, and the classes were 2 hours long. As time went on, however, I started to lose my motivation. After I earned the rank of Cho Dan Bo (black belt candidate), my training dropped off and others who started after me were starting to get better than me. Moreover, when I did go to class, it seemed as if the head instructor was there less, and higher belts were teaching the class, and that included me sometimes. And, the focus was almost exclusively on basic material. Some of the black belts told me about these mysterious "black belt" classes, but I was never told when they met. And increasingly, I was expected to put in time at martial arts demos at the mall and competing in tournaments. Don't get me wrong. Once in awhile that is fine, but once in awhile, I would have appreciated spending a Saturday preparing for the black belt test. So, I quit. Maybe 6 months or less from the time I would have tested for 1st Dan.

I should have gone and spoken with the head instructor instead of quitting. Had I stuck with it, who knows where I would be now? Anyway, these days, I am much more self assured about talking to my instructors and asking for help if I need it. And unlike last time around, I am determined to make 1st Dan eventually.
 

pdg

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Agreed. I base my opinions on martial artists based on what they can actually /do/ what they wear around their waist. You can have all the Dan ranks in the world all the certificates all the embroided gis. But if you can't even perform a basic kata or spar at an effective level then what does that belt really mean. Belts are simply for promoting a guys club. Some guy saying I've been training for 20 years doesn't sound as good as saying I'm an 8th Dan black belt. Hey it brings in students fair enough I get the business sense behind it and yeah some 8th dans are good but some are guys who can't even throw a punch or a kick so really the actual belt doesn't mean anything when it comes to ability because the belt doesn't prove if your good or not due to the fact that some 8th dans are good and some aren't. Lol and I got accused of bullying people by saying that

That's not a bullying attitude, that's a valid statement of opinion. What makes your previous statement bullying is stating someone doesn't deserve their rank when you know little to nothing about the standards they are expected to attain.

It's still organisation dependant though...

For instance, in 'my' org you have to be over 15 to test for 1st Dan (and that's only after the 4 year minimum to work through the colour belts), and then the path to 8th Dan means you're going to be at least 45-50 by that point.

In terms of movement and efficacy, it's unlikely those people are going to outperform (i.e. be better than) a 20 year old 2nd or 3rd.

And that's not even taking into consideration that you don't really test as such at that level - it's much more about contribution to the art.

From my standpoint, I feel I'd gain much more from time spent with the (hopefully) huge knowledge and experience of an 8th than the 'good fighter' 2nd.

And then, it also depends on what you consider 'good'.

A good fighter doesn't automatically make a good teacher, and a good teacher doesn't necessarily need to be able to perform everything perfectly to be able to teach another to do it.
 

Gerry Seymour

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It depends on what you did to get it, that's what it means.
If its a useless black belt who gets it when they don't deserve it, as you put it, than it doesn't mean much, they obviously went to a school with very low standards.
Getting the rank if first dan at a good school with a good solid reputation that has high standards obviously means much more than having it handed to you at some rinky dink school with very low standards.
It's like a t-shirt (stick with me on this one). I have t-shirts that mean nothing, because I bought them or got them for showing up at something. I have other t-shirts that mean more to me, because they represent something more important to me (fun, sweat, effort, accomplishment, or all of the above). What they represent to me is all that really matters about them.
 

PhotonGuy

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no not at all, I know how good or bad I am at karate, what belt I have doesn't change that in anyway what sdo ever. if I value belt awards that means I'm putting someone else opinion of my abilities above my own opinion, if that award causes me to feel pride, or lack of belt makes me feel!l a failure. then I have given control of my emot?ions to a third party. my drive for success is internal, I don't need a carrot to spur me on to higher effort. therefore I don't collect carrots

I'm just as disregarding for awards that actually mean something, like pool trophies or football medals. if I won a pool championship I won it, I don't need a trophy to remind me I'm good at pool. if h a world champion trophy, I might value that( but probably not I'd forget and leave it on the bus) but a northwest of England regional champion trophy is just a mark of failure in my drive for world domination
Well if you don't care about belts or rank that's your choice.
 

jobo

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Well if you don't care about belts or rank that's your choice.
I know it's my choice, just as its yours, my issue is your view expressed that they have an intrinsic value from certain schools,( and not for.om others)when they dont,
someone from a " poor" schools is just as much at liberty to place value on there achievements in gaining a belt as you are, as your both equally delusional as to it's objective value, but it's subjective value is with out doubt equal to yours
 

PhotonGuy

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I no it's my choice, just as its yours, my issue is your view expressed that they have an intrinsic value from certain schools,( and not for.om others)when they dont,
someone from a " poor" schools is just as much at liberty to place value on there achievements in gaining a belt as you are, as your both equally delusional as to it's objective value
A belt is just a symbol, just like the trophy you mentioned that you might win at a game of pool. The important thing is knowing you won. You know you win when you sink the 8 ball after sinking all of your other balls, not when you're handed a trophy. Likewise same thing with belts, you know you've earned the rank when your instructor tells you so, not when you get some physical belt. Being told I earned the rank of 1st dan or whatever is going to mean much more to me at a good school with high standards than it would at a poor school that has very low standards for earning rank. Do you see where Im coming from?
 

jobo

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A belt is just a symbol, just like the trophy you mentioned that you might win at a game of pool. The important thing is knowing you won. You know you win when you sink the 8 ball after sinking all of your other balls, not when you're handed a trophy. Likewise same thing with belts, you know you've earned the rank when your instructor tells you so, not when you get some physical belt. Being told I earned the rank of 1st dan or whatever is going to mean much more to me at a good school with high standards than it would at a poor school that has very low standards for earning rank. Do you see where Im coming from?
not the same last all, one is an objective measure of a defined success, ie you won

the other is a subjective measure ,where achieving the subjective measure is its self the success, so a totally subjective success
 
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Gerry Seymour

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not the same last all, one is an objective measure of a defined success, ie you won

the other is a subjective measure ,where achieving the subjective measure is its self the success, so a totally subjective success
In a way it's the same thing. What counts as a win in a given game is whatever the players of that game have determined the rules to be (and later, rules committees). That's pretty much the same deal for ranks within any given group.
 

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