Quitting Martial Arts

[lostinseattle]

Much of what you're saying in contradictory. You don't like what's happened to martial arts but you feel free to say that a traditional training aid like the wooden dummy is archaic.

Wing Chun isn't actually a martial arts system. It's just a piece of a larger system. That's one of the common misconceptions about wing chun.

The Wing Chun dummy was never designed to be a comprehensive dummy form. If you look at the CLF dummies you will realize that Wing Chun dummy is extremely limited.

It saddens me to hear someone say that they've quit training because martial arts aren't as good as they used to be. Martial arts are made up of martial artists. If things aren't what you want them to be, change them or lose the right to complain.

I'm not complaining. It is a logical progression that MA should be watered down because since the gun and the tank and the invention of modern weapons, hand to hand fighting has become less and less relevant.

Why do you think the military trains guns and tanks and planes and other advanced weapons systems and spends less time on hand to hand combat? It's because they're smart ... you're not going to beat an army that has guns with hand to hand combat.

Anyway, thanks for talking about this, and sorry for venting on a public forum. I guess nobody else thinks the same thing about this.

 

[Andrew Green]

It sounds like you have a very set way of thinking when it comes to what you feel martial arts should be, and are unwilling to accept much outside of that.

As for military, well, no one has ever charged onto a battlefield to fight without a weapon, ever. Weapons have been in use since we started having wars.

 

[lostinseattle]

It sounds like you have a very set way of thinking when it comes to what you feel martial arts should be, and are unwilling to accept much outside of that.

As for military, well, no one has ever charged onto a battlefield to fight without a weapon, ever. Weapons have been in use since we started having wars.

Does the military train spear, bow, sword, crossbow and all that anymore? No, not really, right? That's what I mean, hand to hand combat isn't as relevant anymore. So they don't spend much time on it anymore.

Anyways, I'm through. Thanks for the conversation, and once again, sorry for venting on a public forum.

 

[lostinseattle]

By your rationale, the Apostles would've quit when Christ was gone. Follow their example - or that of your revered teacher.

I am following the example of my martial arts teacher. He quit. I'm quitting. I was venting, is all, yes it is a bit frustrating. I'm sorry for venting.

 

[Marginal]

Basically his comments support what I've come across the past 15 years or so which is a gradual watering down of martial arts until it doesn't seem what people are teaching out there is really martial arts anymore, but rather just something really bad.

So that's it. I formally retire from MA. I've had it.

Given how long similar comments have been voiced, about 5,000 years ago Martial artists must've all been unsurpassable gods.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Open your heart and your mind and you might find something. But until you do that you won't and its better not to waste your time.

 

[lostinseattle]

Open your heart and your mind and you might find something. But until you do that you won't and its better not to waste your time.

See, that's what I'm against.

Everybody says, "Open your mind." "Be open." "Be accepting." "Join our school."

But what they do sucks. Instead of listening to the customer and change it a little bit, they try to enforce their will upon others. Instead of listening, "What is this guy saying?" They want everything done their way.

You realize it is a fallacious argument you're using, right? You're basically saying there is something wrong with me because I don't want to train the way these other people are training.

That's 100% of the reason I'm quitting. It's not that the training is substandard. It's not that the teachers are limited. It's because everybody thinks they're right and wants to impose their will upon others, instead of listening to others and making some concessions.

I've been perfectly willing to make concessions. I've been willing to put up with a ton of stuff from teachers. I've been willing to go 50-50 with training partners. Even 85% of their stuff and only 15% of my techniques.

I've been perfectly open to substandard training, even taking MMA. But the problem is that people really aren't willing to do 50-50. They really aren't willing to go 85-15. They want it 100% their way or the highway. They just want to get more students for their school, their way, their training. They don't care what anyone else thinks.

No teacher of MA wants somebody to get tired and quit. They want people to bow down to them and do it their way. Join their school. More monthly payments, more $, more prestige for them.

So they only leave one option.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Does the military train spear, bow, sword, crossbow and all that anymore? No, not really, right? That's what I mean, hand to hand combat isn't as relevant anymore. So they don't spend much time on it anymore.

Anyways, I'm through. Thanks for the conversation, and once again, sorry for venting on a public forum.

Actually UNARMED combat has never really been a major focus of any military anyway, its just not an efficient use of resources.
And since most martial arts is unarmed focused, there's no point whatsoever trying to establish a correlation between the two.
Personally I feel that whyile yes there is alot of crap out there, martial arts is currenlty at one of its highest points for being able to do solid combat based training.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

I've been perfectly open to substandard training, even taking MMA.

Well if thats your attitude it certainly explains an awful lot....

 

[terryl965]

See, that's what I'm against.

Everybody says, "Open your mind." "Be open." "Be accepting." "Join our school."

But what they do sucks. Instead of listening to the customer and change it a little bit, they try to enforce their will upon others. Instead of listening, "What is this guy saying?" They want everything done their way.

You realize it is a fallacious argument you're using, right? You're basically saying there is something wrong with me because I don't want to train the way these other people are training.

That's 100% of the reason I'm quitting. It's not that the training is substandard. It's not that the teachers are limited. It's because everybody thinks they're right and wants to impose their will upon others, instead of listening to others and making some concessions.

I've been perfectly willing to make concessions. I've been willing to put up with a ton of stuff from teachers. I've been willing to go 50-50 with training partners. Even 85% of their stuff and only 15% of my techniques.

I've been perfectly open to substandard training, even taking MMA. But the problem is that people really aren't willing to do 50-50. They really aren't willing to go 85-15. They want it 100% their way or the highway. They just want to get more students for their school, their way, their training. They don't care what anyone else thinks.

No teacher of MA wants somebody to get tired and quit. They want people to bow down to them and do it their way. Join their school. More monthly payments, more $, more prestige for them.

So they only leave one option.

Well I will tell you what come to Texas and see me I will train you for free and lets see if you can make it though the first week without complaining about every little freaking thing, all you have done in this entire thread is be little every single person suddestion and talk about you want real training please if you live in America you getalmost real training nobody take a kendo stick to the back of there student legs nobody makes you kick a palm tree until you cannot stand, and nobody really wants to hear you cry all the time. You said you wa done with this thread but you keep coming back to put down the members here come on dude get a grip on life and suck it up and find a place to train even if that is a spare bedroom by yourself doing your own thing maybe we will read about you and your new style and everybody can do it your way.

Peace :asian:

 

[lostinseattle]

Peace :asian:

Once again, none of you are getting it. The only person that got it was on the other thread, exile I think his name was.

Oh, well. Thanks for the comments.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Once again, none of you are getting it. The only person that got it was on the other thread, exile I think his name was.

Oh, well. Thanks for the comments.

You're basically saying that everything around is crap, you don't want to do it. We're disputing the fact that everything is crap. Whether or not you want to do it is still up to you.

 

[MarkBarlow]

Once again, none of you are getting it. The only person that got it was on the other thread, exile I think his name was.

Oh, well. Thanks for the comments.

How's this? You don't really want input. You just wanted to vent. We're not going to tell you anything new or (in your view) worthwhile. We should have just let you rant and not replied.

O.K. No problem.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Anyway I don't expect anyone will agree with my decision, but I think I should have done it a long time ago.

You really don't need anyone to agree, it is after all your call. Only you know what is best for you.

1 question, why start a school, could it be possible to find someone to train with or to train, just one person.

My Sanda Sifu trains only people he trusts won't abuse what he teaches, he has no school really. My Taiji Sifu teaches at a local community center he also has no school.

Just some thoughts

I truly wish you my best :asian:
XS

 

[lostinseattle]

How's this? You don't really want input. You just wanted to vent. We're not going to tell you anything new or (in your view) worthwhile. We should have just let you rant and not replied.

O.K. No problem.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Honestly, I wanted somebody to talk about how watered down MA has become, and what they do to combat it in their school, and training methodologies for open training.

Instead, most everybody says don't quit, your cup is too full, go to this class, etc. The standard answers that sidestep the entire question.

So before you accuse somebody of not wanting replies, perhaps you should address the actual question. Anyways, I am totally through now. With this board as well.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Honestly, I wanted somebody to talk about how watered down MA has become, and what they do to combat it in their school, and training methodologies for open training.

Instead, most everybody says don't quit, your cup is too full, go to this class, etc. The standard answers that sidestep the entire question.

So before you accuse somebody of not wanting replies, perhaps you should address the actual question. Anyways, I am totally through now. With this board as well.

And?
There's been plenty of discussions regarding on the board about useful training methods and ways to improve combat training. Most people here would probably rather take steps to improve their own training, than give out about others.

 

[rutherford]

Once again, none of you are getting it.

That's because every one of us would keep going. At the very least, if I were you I'd ask my old instructor to meet up at his house a couple nights a week / month.

But, I'm not you. I have a list of places I'd like to train in Washington, and I live on the other side of the country.

 

[Flatlander]

Once again, none of you are getting it.

Well, here's what I'm reading from you:

- There is a way that you want to train, but you're (so far) unable to find a school that fits with your desired training ideology.

- Because you perceive a large scale 'watering down' of martial arts training, there's just no point in trying to buck the trend.

- Your efforts to find another school have shown you that nobody else within your search parameters has value to add to what you're doing.

- You want other schools to take you in so that you can teach them, but are unwilling to learn other systems, and unwilling to open your own school.

However, I'll admit that I may be reading you wrong, because I see a great deal of contradiction in your own statements.

That's 100% of the reason I'm quitting. It's not that the training is substandard. It's not that the teachers are limited. It's because everybody thinks they're right and wants to impose their will upon others, instead of listening to others and making some concessions.

I think you should read your own words here, specifically the italicized bit, then compare that to some of your other posts in this thread.

Before you exit the thread for good, I have a question that doesn't seem to have been asked of you as of yet: What is it specifically that you seek in your training?

I ask because it seems to me that you simply don't want to train any more, which is fine. But it does appear as though you are manufacturing unreasonable excuses for quitting, rather than simply admitting to yourself that you're simply not interested in learning any more. Again, there's nothing wrong with making that admission, each should feel free to follow their own path. Having said that, I don't believe that you're being entirely honest with yourself, or the rest of us. And I'm not suggesting that you're doing so purposefully, I'm quite sure that misleading yourself, or others, is not your intent.

I am simply suggesting that (to echo the various other posters in this thread) if there is something in particular that you're seeking, you're certain to find it if you apply the appropriate effort to your search.

For example, you have alluded to the irrelevancy of hand to hand combat training in the modern age. I see no problem with holding that opinion. However, the irrelevancy of hand to hand combat in the modern age is not the reason that you gave for quitting. You specifically said that your concern was the watering down of the arts.

Also, to make the following statement:

The military combatives that they used to teach back in WWII, Korea and Vietnam are even watered down now. They teach BJJ and stuff instead.

is completely asinine. The military H2H systems are constantly evolving and improving based upon an ever increasing body of knowledge and experience. I'm going to go ahead and guess that you haven't any military experience. Neither do I, by the way, but I've done a great deal of research, rolled with a few, trained under the people who have trained military folk (Kelly Worden, the one you referred to as "granola" - "wing chun dummies are so '80's", etc.) I think it's revealing that you're quick to judge what others are doing without making the effort to actually investigate and do a little due diligence.

In fact, the more I analyze this thread, the more I'm becoming convinced that you're simply unmotivated to actually learn the martial arts at any deeper level that what you've achieved thus far. Again, there's nothing wrong with that. I just think that your justifications are unreasonable. Which is to say, your finger is pointing in the wrong direction.

 

[MarkBarlow]

Honestly, I wanted somebody to talk about how watered down MA has become, and what they do to combat it in their school, and training methodologies for open training.

Instead, most everybody says don't quit, your cup is too full, go to this class, etc. The standard answers that sidestep the entire question.

So before you accuse somebody of not wanting replies, perhaps you should address the actual question. Anyways, I am totally through now. With this board as well.

I wasn't trying to be argumentative and certainly wasn't accusing you of anything. Again, it seems you've got a script and none of us got our copy so we're not feeding you the lines you'd like.

Bottom line, I truly hope you find the vehicle that puts you where you want to be. Sincerely, I feel for you and can see where it's easy to be depressed when looking at the state of most dojo/dojang/kwoon. I made the decision years ago to keep swingin' and at least I can feel good about the effort my students and other instructors make.

 

[Flatlander]

Honestly, I wanted somebody to talk about how watered down MA has become, and what they do to combat it in their school, and training methodologies for open training.

Instead, most everybody says don't quit, your cup is too full, go to this class, etc. The standard answers that sidestep the entire question.

So before you accuse somebody of not wanting replies, perhaps you should address the actual question. Anyways, I am totally through now. With this board as well.

:lol2: Well, for crying out loud, you're the one that titled the thread "Quitting Martial Arts" and proceeded to explain how you were quitting. What did you expect? I'd suggest titling the thread "Martial Arts: Too watered down?" See, the rule on the board is that we stick to the topic of the original post, lest we get reprimanded for being off topic. So, don't cry when people respond to what you've posted yourself.