- Feb 26, 2018
- Reaction score
- in the shadows
Yep. On multiple occasions.
Question about Japanese Shihan
That's what you get for basing assumptions on video ;)..same point can be applied to yhe Ed Lomax thread ;) Do you know me? Oh, sorry! Just because i said Ed Lomax hasn´t the best Taijutsu that i´ve ever seen, you assumed that i only know him from videos. Well, sorry, but you´re wrong. And...
I am an instructor under Sensei Wayne Roy, having joined his organsation in 1993, when we were still part of the Bujinkan (hence my ability to answer your history question... and yes, Stephen, it was Nagato. When Nagato accompanied Hatsumi Sensei out here for the first Australian Tai Kai, he used Sensei Roy as uke for the most part, the first thing Nagato Sensei said to Mr Roy was "Well Roy-san, it's been a long time... now, punch!"). I earned my Shodan while still in the Bujinkan, my later grade after we split. To give an idea, though, as I said in the other thread, Sensei Roy stopped at Rokudan, so Godan is as high as we go under him. I am currently a Sandan.
For more details, see the website in my signature.
Ok, did a search on Wayne L Roy and found this. So Chris Parker joined Wayne L Roy (in his own words) in 1993. Apparently when Wayne L Roy was still part of the Bujinkan…I seem to recall (and I can find it if you like) that Chris Parker said he gained his Shodan from the Bujinkan…..
So for Chris Parker to have earned his Shodan in the Bujinkan, it would have been sometime in 1996/1997. Shortly after that, Wayne L Roy was booted out of the Bujinkan so Chris Parker has not been a member of the Bujinkan for at least 20 years yet having gained Shodan rank, he still purports to be an expert on it. Tony Dismukes you say And here we come to the problem I referred to above. How exactly is RogueShooter06 supposed to “do his own research?” He can find the info you listed above on Wikipedia. As far as establishing the historical bona fides of the individual lineages, that’s going to be a bit of a challenge. I’m still reading Askew’s book, but he states early on that none of the history of Togakure Ryu was ever written down before Takamatsu - that it was strictly a secret oral tradition before that. (I haven’t gotten to any mentions of the other 5 associated lineages, but I suspect the same will turn out be true of them as well.) How exactly is a non-Japanese, non-historian supposed to “do his own research” to determine the accuracy of this claimed secret oral tradition? This is why I stated in my original post that we will probably never know the full truth regarding the origins of those 6 of the arts contained within the Bujinkan.
so how can Chris Parker be any more enlightened than the rest of us? Some history to the readers on Wayne L Roys colourful background in Australia
Jun 13, 1999, 5:00:00 PM
Why do they want Wayne Roy out of the Bujinkan???
All I could find about him was at the link below???
Jun 14, 1999, 5:00:00 PM
On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:41:31 -0500, TENCHI <[email protected]>
gees a reply to that could be a books worth I'll give you some
major points, though it is still long.
- runs his school very much like a cult. in the eraly days some of his
senior students used to call it the 4th Reich, those of us outside the
school have obviously called it worse.
- he then started kicking out his dan ranks for "insubordination" and
training in other styles - no big deal his dojo right, but he told
them that they were also kicked out of the Bujinkan. His cult methods
ensured that most of these people believed him and some even spent
year in therapy.
- told people that without a personal letter from him you could not
train in Japan - same as Hayes here.
- forced his seniors to sign franchise agreements stating that if they
ever left the school that they would never teach martial arts again.
kicked out anybody who did not sign
- ran media campaigns against other Bujinkan instructors - including
paid for adverts in martial arts magazines stating that other specific
instructors were not qualified or recognised by the Bujinkan. one
particular instructor tried to encourage people to go to Japan for
training and offered to help them do so in a martial arts magazine and
was subjected to copious amounts of hate mail and also public attack
in the same magazine. Roy then started attacking the Bujinkan in
general when complaining about some twin 19 yearolds in England that
had passed their godan tests - regardless of the fact that they had
trained for over 10 years with Peter King - I have met one of these
boys and his skill is well above the average godan as is normal for
anybody out of Peter's dojo.
- tried to stop the Adelaide Taikai from happening in 1992 (1st Aussie
- ordered 63 dan ranks before this taikai many being sequences for the
same people - Hatsumi told me that it was obvious therefore that he
had no intention of getting legitimate ranks until he heard of the
Taikai. later Roy's rank fees were told to Hatsumi and myself by some
of his ex-students and you can imagine Hatsumi's reaction to finding
out that 3rd dans were $1000
- snubbed Hatsumi's Shidoshi-kai meeting at said taikai - was seen
entering a restaurant nearby with some friends instead.
- accused me of buying my rank at the time by running the taikai and
then mailed Hatsumi with a request for a higher rank for himself
- upon inviting Charles Daniels and Ed Martin to Australia in early
1993 he told his students to go to that rather than the planned Taikai
in the same year (the last taikai here) - Both Charles and Ed were
unable to convince Roy's students otherwise and if you want more
details on this contact Ed.
- boycotted the 1993 Taikai and threatened his students that if they
went he would remove them from his dojo, they were so cult programmed
that even though he has several dojo's in Sydney only two students of
his turned up and they tried to pass themselves off as kung-fu
- tried to sue me for libel when I made it known before the taikai
that I knew what his intentions were and in the process nearly had his
lawyer dismissed from practice and the case was used as lecture
material by one Australian university for some time.
- has consistently insulted Hatsumi and the Japanese Shihan
- has modified (simplified and mutilated) the Bujinkan arts to the
point where they are only barely recogniseable - Hatsumi is refusing
to recognise the ranks he gives
- has not trained in Japan since 1990 when he turned up for 2 classes
and then took his students on a temple tour of Kyoto etc. heard this
before too eh.
- along with many other Australians that had not paid for their ranks
after 4 years or more he was demoted down to his last paid for rank.
- accused me again of buying ranks by running taikai's here. in fact I
tried to refuse my 8th at the Sydney Taikai but Hatsumi wouldn't allow
me too - anybody that knows me also knows that I was not subtle when
trying to refuse it either.
- since the late eighties Hatsumi has had on student after another of
Roys turning up to Japan - most have had to leave his dojo to do so
and have similar stories to tell. Hatsumi has also been unimpressed by
what these people thought was Bujinkan technique and asked Andrw Young
and Mark O'Brien to tour Australia in 1992 to help fix the standard
here. But what has been most noticeable is the culture of distrust and
aggression towards each other here by Roy people to no-Roy people and
ex-Roy people to everybody and it is quite obviously a product of his
cult teachings and methods. Sure it happens all over the world to an
extent and again I will say that if you want an outsiders view of how
bad it was here ask Ed Martin or Charles Daniels what they gleaned
about it in their 3 weeks here as guests of Roy. Needless to say that
Ed has joined me in voting for Roy's expulsion
so I guess people can come to their own conclusions on Chris Parkers credentials in the Bujinkan. Shodan is hardly an expert, In the Bujinkan, Shodan is just the beginning