Questions Concerning Bram Frank and CSSD/SC.

Cruentus

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DoxN4cer said:
CSSD, AMAA and MA-80

2 Questions:

1. Does Mr. Bolden consider his AMAA a "Remy Presas Modern Arnis" Group?

2. I KNOW that Bram doesn't consider his CSSD a Modern Arnis group, so why would that be included?

Thanks,

Paul
 

Dan Anderson

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Tulisan said:
2 Questions:

1. Does Mr. Bolden consider his AMAA a "Remy Presas Modern Arnis" Group?

2. I KNOW that Bram doesn't consider his CSSD a Modern Arnis group, so why would that be included?

Thanks,

Paul
Hi Paul,

1. Tom Bolden's AMAA is based on RP's philosophy but AMAA is not RP Modern Arnis. The technical base is pancipanci eskrima, CHA-3 Kenpo, Yang style Taiji as well as Modern Arnis. The key things he took from Modern Arnis were the core principles of the art. He is also a professor rated by the Hawaiian Martial Arts Society.

2. Bram's CSSD/SC is based off of Modern Arnis and is recognized by Arnis Philippines as a branch of Modern Arnis so it could be considered a Modern Arnis organization.

Yours,
Dan
 

Cruentus

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Dan Anderson said:
Hi Paul,

1. Tom Bolden's AMAA is based on RP's philosophy but AMAA is not RP Modern Arnis. The technical base is pancipanci eskrima, CHA-3 Kenpo, Yang style Taiji as well as Modern Arnis. The key things he took from Modern Arnis were the core principles of the art. He is also a professor rated by the Hawaiian Martial Arts Society.

That is what I thought.

2. Bram's CSSD/SC is based off of Modern Arnis and is recognized by Arnis Philippines as a branch of Modern Arnis so it could be considered a Modern Arnis organization.

That's funny, because at the symp. Bram had said himself (exactly) that he doesn't make any claims to Modern Arnis, and the he doesn't claim to have a Modern Arnis Org.; that he was doing his own thing. Now, he is recognized by IMAFP as a branch of MA? That is the first I heard of this. Is this just Roland Dantes giving him credit unofficially, or is there something official through the IMAFP?

I ask about all this not because I am trying to be nitpicky just for the sake of it.

The thing is, if someone is making a claim to Modern Arnis and claiming authority in the art, then that is fine and they should do what they can to promote Remy's legacy. I would hope, however, that if this is their goal, that they were given some sort of authority to do so by Professor before his death, and that they weren't doing this just to market themselves unethically.

If one is doing his own thing, however, then one should be accredited for that. Doing your own thing and being successful at it is an accomplishment in itself. I can relate because I do my own thing, and I am personally annoyed when people mistaken what I do (without seeing it for themselves) as just another Modern Arnis or even FMA. Although what I do is heavily influenced by MA and FMA, it is not either, and if one attended something I was teaching, this would be obvious to the trained eye.

I just think credit should be given where it is due, whether one is doing their own thing, or promoting Remy's art. And, I think that what people do shouldn't be misrepresented.

And, I also think that people can't have it both ways for the sake of self-promotion. Ethics and honesty is key here.

Paul
 

Dan Anderson

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Tulisan said:
That's funny, because at the symp. Bram had said himself (exactly) that he doesn't make any claims to Modern Arnis, and the he doesn't claim to have a Modern Arnis Org.; that he was doing his own thing. Now, he is recognized by IMAFP as a branch of MA? That is the first I heard of this. Is this just Roland Dantes giving him credit unofficially, or is there something official through the IMAFP?

Paul

Paul,

I am speaking out of turn when I say CSSD/SC is recognized by Arnis Philippines as a branch of Modern Arnis. Let me ask Bram as I may have mis-duplicated him. Arnis Philippines, however, is not IMAFP. IMAFP is strictly Modern Arnis while Arnis Philippines is an umbrella organization with many arnis types in it.

Yours,
Dan
 

Cruentus

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Dan Anderson said:
Paul,

IMAFP is strictly Modern Arnis while Arnis Philippines is an umbrella organization with many arnis types in it.

Yours,
Dan

Ah...thanks for clearing that one up. I have never heard of Arnis PI; if you (or anyone) has more info or web links to that, I'd like to look into it, just For my own info and research.

:asian:
 

Dan Anderson

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Paul,

CSSD/SC is recognized by Arnis Philippines as a branch of Modern Arnis. Remy Presas recognized it several years before and when in the PI this last February, Bram received a certificate of appreciation from the head of Arnis Philippines, Raymond Vallejo. If you go to the link, you'll see photos of Bram receiving the award. In the photos you'll also see SM Roland Dantes as well.
http://cssdsc.com/gallery/album04

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - Are you going to post up what we talked about on the phone yesterday for clarification to one and all?
 

Dan Anderson

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RP recognized it and let several of the senior masters in the PI (Roland Dantes, Vic Sanchez) know of it. They have known of Bram for some time now. This is not surprising as Bram is primarily a blade man and the senior masters in the PI are bladers as well. It is the US where the blade aspect of Modern Arnis is not stressed every much.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
 

Guro Harold

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Dan Anderson said:
RP recognized it and let several of the senior masters in the PI (Roland Dantes, Vic Sanchez) know of it. They have known of Bram for some time now. This is not surprising as Bram is primarily a blade man and the senior masters in the PI are bladers as well. It is the US where the blade aspect of Modern Arnis is not stressed every much.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
Dan,

One note in this, SM Dantes is a true ambassador and bridge builder but for clarity are you saying that GM Presas recognized Bram and CSSD/SC or that SM Dantes and Arnis Philippines recognizes Bram and CSSD/SC?

Thanks,

Harold
 

Dan Anderson

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Hi Harold,

To my understanding RP recognized Bram and CSSD/SC and I know for a fact that Arnis Philippines recognizes Bram and CSSD/SC.

Dan
 

Dan Anderson

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Harold,
Additional data for you from Rey Galang's Warrior Arts Of The Philippines, page 263:
(from an interview with Senior Master Roland Dantes)

[Q] What topics did Professor Remy discuss with you?
When I was there we had many personal discussions. Topics ranged from memories of the early years, friends and students in the Philippines and of course, Modern Arnis. He mentioned Dr. Randi Shea, Dieter Knuttel, Kelly Worden, Dan Anderson, Bram Frank, Shishir Inocalla, Jeff Delaney, David Hoffman, Tim Hartman, Richard Roy, Jerome Barber, Brian Zawilinski, David Ng, Roland Rivera, Ed Cordova, and several others.

He was proud of all their accomplishments. This is one of the reasons he wanted me to join him on his seminar tour, so I could meet all these modern arnis brothers."


Aside from the datus and MoTTs, there were others he held in high regard as well.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
 

Bester

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I have to ask a question about Bram Frank.
What's the story here?
I did a search and found stories where he supposedly cut up his students, stole knife designs, pulled a knife on a celeb. at some big event, and even that he was stripped of his MA rank by GM Presas.

Seems somethings a bit fubar here. I certainly wouldn't want to hang around and give props to someone that much a wackjob.

So, what gives?
 

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Gee bester, you sure like to stirr up **** for someone who just lectured us all about the politics and "bad blood" in the Arnis world. Makes me wonder what your agenda is here with that question that. As it is a favorite of a few persons here it leads me to wonder what types of associations are in effect....
 

Bester

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Mr. Gerace,
I asked some questions based on posts and comments I read here, bladeforums, Mr. Wordens, and elsewhere. If those are a favorite of anyone here, that is their problem.

Obviously though, one cannot ask questions of you Arnis people. To do so seems to result in one being jumped on by one of your little factions. I've seen at least 2 individuals here get gang-raped by the cliques for simply signing up at the wrong time or posting on the wrong thread. Never mind the fact that some of you folks seem to have or had multiple accounts simply to push your little empire building and game playing. Personally, I have to say that this attitude is a major discouragement in myself towards seeking a deeper education of the art.

I asked some questions. Do you have an answer to the questions, or am I somehow not "worthy" of a public answer?
 
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DoxN4cer

DoxN4cer

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Bester said:
I have to ask a question about Bram Frank.
What's the story here?
I did a search and found stories where he supposedly cut up his students, stole knife designs, pulled a knife on a celeb. at some big event, and even that he was stripped of his MA rank by GM Presas.

Seems somethings a bit fubar here. I certainly wouldn't want to hang around and give props to someone that much a wackjob.

So, what gives?

Those are probably issues that you could approach Bram on in person, rather than sling somebody else's second-hand mud around. That is, if you really cared to hear the other side of the story (stories). Substance, sir, not mud.

Tim Kashino
 

Tgace

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Bester said:
I have to ask a question about Bram Frank.
What's the story here?
I did a search and found stories where he supposedly cut up his students, stole knife designs, pulled a knife on a celeb. at some big event, and even that he was stripped of his MA rank by GM Presas.

Seems somethings a bit fubar here. I certainly wouldn't want to hang around and give props to someone that much a wackjob.

So, what gives?
Hmmm..yes that was a simple fact finding question with no slant, angle or mudslinging intended. Must have misread the intention....:shrug:

Considering how this thread we all were involved in on this topic got locked down, and your (not saying undeserved) criticism of Arnis practicioners. I would think ya would have been aware of its **** stirring potential. And the way its phrased...well.

Walks like a duck..lets see if it quacks.
 

Guro Harold

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The question was asked earlier by myself was what were some of the other MA groups out there due to the fact that the "other" category had was tied for #2 in the poll.

Some other groups were mentioned that caused no questions to be raised, some others however did raise some questions. Some questions were answered and some points were made. If we continue in this light then we have a chance for this thread to continue to be productive and on track.

We can and should examine information and claims analytically and empirically balanced with the fact that not all questions in the world can be, nor will be answered in one thread.

-Palusut
 

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