Questions and then some

Dirty Dog

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I got 2 questions same subject;

In class generally a lower belt would be preffered not to correct a higher rank.
I know its showing respect and I personally never had trouble in this area (I have noticed some people make this mistake before but very rare though). My question exactly how does it show respect?

Also what are your thoughts on the subject?(I ask this question because I like to see other peoples perspectives)

In general, it is assumed that the higher ranked person knows more than the lower, and therefore lower ranks shouldn't correct higher.
Is this always true? Of course not. And the less difference in rank, the less likely it is to be true. A 9th geup may very well have a better roundhouse kick (for example) than an 8th. And they may offer suggestions about this. If it's done respectfully, it shouldn't be a real problem.
The same may be true of a lower rank who has prior experience, especially in a similar art.
The bigger the difference in rank/experience, the less likely it is that it would be appropriate for the lower ranked student to offer advice.



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donald1

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Quandao, kwandao and, guandao? Same weapon spelled different ways or 3 different weapons?

Liuweidao and niuweidao
If my knoledge is correct liuweidao is "willow leaf" dao and niuweidao is "ox tail" dao. Completely different meanings. Yet smelled almost the same. Thoughts??
 

Xue Sheng

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Quandao, kwandao and, guandao? Same weapon spelled different ways or 3 different weapons?

Liuweidao and niuweidao
If my knoledge is correct liuweidao is "willow leaf" dao and niuweidao is "ox tail" dao. Completely different meanings. Yet smelled almost the same. Thoughts??

Pinyin
Wade-Giles
Yale

3 different ways to Romanize the same thing... when it reality is is spelled this way

Do you mean Liuyedao (喳嗅) or willow leaf saber
Niuweidao ( 撠曉) which was primarily a civilian weapon which is also the oxtail dao

The Chinese basically look at all Dao as a knife and there are just different types of knives, that is why they are all "dao" but if you compare 喳嗅 to 撠曉 the spelling is rather different, accept for the 3rd character of course, dao (knife)
 

Xue Sheng

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Yeah those silly Chinese mess that up all the time :D

But Dao () means knife and I believe the direct translation of Liuyedao (喳嗅) willow leaf knife and Niuweidao ( 撠曉) is actually Ox Tal Knife, Jian () means sword
 
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donald1

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"A rose by any other name will smell as sweet" Shakespeare.
Strange... I thought for certain it said "spelled" but I guess its close enough o_O
 

Tez3

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Strange... I thought for certain it said "spelled" but I guess its close enough o_O

:D Ah but we say spelt not spelled that would be the Scottish play and the witches.
 
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donald1

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Ah but we say spelt not spelled that would be the Scottish play and the witches.

I say whatever I feel like :D... th@t r 姑at 洋er $ounds g0od!
 
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donald1

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I was reading some posts about people getting in trouble for simply carrying knives. And I thought for a second well... I usually have my dao in the back of my car (4 door car) ive never been pulled over (except once because tail light out) so ive never had trouble with it before but thought; would there be any problems me leaving it in the car(I keep it sheathed) I also have a large baseball bag I can put it in just in case leaving it sheathed isnt enough. Thoughts?
 

Dirty Dog

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Depends in your local laws. When Sue and I go someplace, odds are that there will be at least two guns and knives in the car. Possibly more. But in Colorado, open carry is legal, and concealed carry without a permit is legal on or in your property. Your car is your property. So if I want to stash 8 guns, 12 knives and 6 swords in my car, it's legal.


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donald1

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Two questions in regards yang style tai chi.

- who founded yang style tai chi? If my knoledge is correct it is one of those family martial artists styles so im guessing the founder last name is yang?
- who came up with the 108 step form?
 

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donald1

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This october 9th I get to go to oklahoma and meet some cma people. There is going to be a lecture too. Whats a MA lecture? Ive been to college lectures many times, are they similar. (Sit quietly and listen and take notes)?

When someone uses the title doctor (dr.) In martial arts what does that mean, is it a rank?
 

Xue Sheng

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This october 9th I get to go to oklahoma and meet some cma people. There is going to be a lecture too. Whats a MA lecture? Ive been to college lectures many times, are they similar. (Sit quietly and listen and take notes)?

When someone uses the title doctor (dr.) In martial arts what does that mean, is it a rank?

My experience is this. and lecture is a lecture is a lecture.

As for the doctor bit, it generally means they are either an MD (Medical Doctor) or a PhD in whatever they majored in while in college and it really has little to do with Martial Arts
 
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geezer

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Yeah those silly Chinese mess that up all the time :D

But Dao () means knife and I believe the direct translation of Liuyedao (喳嗅) willow leaf knife and Niuweidao ( 撠曉) is actually Ox Tal Knife, Jian () means sword

Some years back I remember reading a thread in which two people bitterly argued as to whether "dao" meant sword or knife. The person who spoke Chinese insisted that dao meant knife and jian meant sword, the official sources backed him up, and that was that. The other pointed out that regardless of whatever the standard or official Chinese English translation might be, that in the martial arts, a bloody huge blade meant for killing people (like many larger versions of dao) would be unhesitatingly be called a sword or saber by the vast majority of English speaking people. And that language is essentially democratic and determined by the speakers, not some "official authority". You have to admit, he had a point. But the argument went on for several pages without ever being resolved.

Perhaps it's best to admit that vastly different cultures categorize their worlds differently. Dao in Mandarin apparently describes a category of objects that includes things that English speakers would commonly call knives and things that they would call swords, sabers, and so on. Exact one to one translation is simply not possible. Probably the easiest thing is to just use the Chinese terms and avoid the whole issue. ...Except that being tone-deaf, I can't even pronounce the simplest Chinese terms in a way that native speakers can understand.:(
 
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donald1

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Usually I end up doing poorly when attempting to pronounce chinese words. That and I only know a few words to begin with, mostly form names and even then I mostly say the english translation. :oops:

Its a good thing my instructor speaks English :D
 

Xue Sheng

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Some years back I remember reading a thread in which two people bitterly argued as to whether "dao" meant sword or knife. The person who spoke Chinese insisted that dao meant knife and jian meant sword, the official sources backed him up, and that was that. The other pointed out that regardless of whatever the standard or official Chinese English translation might be, that in the martial arts, a bloody huge blade meant for killing people (like many larger versions of dao) would be unhesitatingly be called a sword or saber by the vast majority of English speaking people. And that language is essentially democratic and determined by the speakers, not some "official authority". You have to admit, he had a point. But the argument went on for several pages without ever being resolved.

Perhaps it's best to admit that vastly different cultures categorize their worlds differently. Dao in Mandarin apparently describes a category of objects that includes things that English speakers would commonly call knives and things that they would call swords, sabers, and so on. Exact one to one translation is simply not possible. Probably the easiest thing is to just use the Chinese terms and avoid the whole issue. ...Except that being tone-deaf, I can't even pronounce the simplest Chinese terms in a way that native speakers can understand.:(

It is actually quite possible..dao means knife. Sifu/shifu means teacher and Sigung/shigong means teacher's teacher. How any non Chinese speaker chooses to use it is entirely up to that person not matter how incorrect their usage might be. For that matter Kung Fu means hard work, it does not mean martial arts. Although that has become so prevalent it has been accepted to mean Chinese martial arts. But in the west, we see a dao and call it a sword, because that is what it is to us. But trying to say that Dao means sword is just wrong.

The Chinese categorize things differently so there are a number of things they categorize as "Knife" and there are a number of things they categorize as a sword. That is why you have various Dao and various Jian. But then they also categorize a number of things a cow too so that is why you see a whole lot of animals, we would not call a cow, with niu in the name. Does not matter the dialect; Mandarin, Cantonese, Shanghainese, they are follow these catagories. It is just their word for it sounds different. However the Chinese character used is the same
 

geezer

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It is actually quite possible..dao means knife.

Forgive me, but I really don't understand what you are saying, Xue. How can you say that dao means knife? Dao means dao. No more and no less.

"Knife" is an English word and construct. It has many meanings but generally would not describe the large bladed weapons that the Chinese include in the category of dao. Other things that the Chinese call dao might fit right into our English conception of knife. But overall, Chinese categories obviously do not correspond precisely with our categories. So Dao is dao and knife is knife.

You know this isn't just a problem with attempting to directly translate Mandarin to English. Direct, word for word translation is imperfect even among closely related languages such as English and German. Take the German messer for example. The word means knife, but in fact it is a sword. One that in Chinese would be called a dao. Nevermind that in English it is absolutely a sword. Now there are specific historical reasons why this sword was called a messer (knife) in German. But I think even Germans of the period fully realized that a big kriegmesser (literally war-knife) was more than a knife. See the clip below:


Or check out this picture: http://www.lutel-handicraft.com/files/products/11005B.jpg

So in German a messer (wink, wink) in English a backsword or saber, in Chinese a dao. Translation is such an imperfect process (sigh).
 
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