Questionable background?

[BrandonLucas]

I've got a few questions about my martial arts background...and I'm going to warn anyone who reads this, it's going to be a long, long explaination before I actually get to my questions, so if you choose to read this, be prepared to read for a while...and I do appologize in advance for this being long-winded.

I've taken Tae Kwon Do for 8 years, quit going for a 6 year period, and am considering going back. I started taking Tae Kwon Do in '93, and I earned was promosted to "recomended" black belt in '96, earned my 1st degree in '97, and then earned my "recomended" 2nd degree in '99. The reason I put recomended in quotations is because I've heard that there is no such thing as recomended ranks...but I really am not sure...I just took the rank at face value, and used the extra year that the recomended ranks gave me to advance my skills.

I've been studying other "arts" from a friend of mine that took TKD with me for the 8 years that I was going. He opened his own TKD school under our instructor, and had the school open for several years before having a falling out with our instructor and closing the school. I didn't have a falling out with our instructor per se, but I disagreed with alot of the things he was doing...he had his own herbal shop in the front of the dojo, and the main 2 things he would sell were QuickCaps, which clean your system for drug screens, and Inosotol powder, which he explained to me that people would buy to add to cocaine to spread it further. I very much disagreed with these business practices, and left the dojo for this reason.

The other "arts" that I was studying from my friend was supposed to be a hybrid of other arts that he was combining to create his own art. The "arts" include: kali, escrima, kenpo, american karate, jiu jitsu, arnis, and some TKD. The reason "arts" is in quotations is because he only went to a few siminars for each particular martial art, and was given the rank of black belt through the people who put on the seminar, which I disagree with. I only took this because I wanted to be in some form of martial art without having to go back to my old instructor.

Well, I have just recently quit going to my friend's school...it just cost too much and was too much of a drive, and I really didn't feel like I was getting anything out of it at all. We didn't do anything the same from class to class, and the whole story would take waaaayyy too long to explain. Just suffice it to say that it was unsatisifactory to have to pay money to go.

I'm now considering going back to my first instructor, and have run into a kind of moral dilemma. First off, I am still friends with the guy I was taking the hybrid art from, and I don't want to disrepect him by going back to my previous instructor who he had a falling out with. We both talked about me going back to him before, and both of us were pretty much on the same side of the fence. The other dilemma I run into is can I overlook what he sells to learn the martial art he teaches? The whole concept of martial arts to me should be to live what you teach...and to me, he doesn't do that. But by the same token, I have no other options available to me to go to another school.

I feel like I can overlook what he sells to go back...after all, I went for 8 years without knowing what was going on. I just don't want to be disrespectful to my friend, since we discussed this whole thing before. But by the same token, I feel like he was disresptful to me, because I was paying him money for a service that he was not delivering on, and insisted that I pay him, which I did.

I'm out of shape, and I am desperately wanting to get back into shape and get back into the martial arts scene again, but at this point I'm not sure what to do. If anyone has any suggestions, that would be most helpful. Also, if anyone has any questions about anything I tried to explain, feel free to ask.

Thanks,
Brandon

 

[MarkBarlow]

Are those the only 2 choices? One instructor seems to be using the students as guinea pigs while he "develops" a style and the other is practicing morally questionable business. I think I'd have to go with whatever is behind the door number 3.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Are those the only 2 choices? One instructor seems to be using the students as guinea pigs while he "develops" a style and the other is practicing morally questionable business. I think I'd have to go with whatever is behind the door number 3.

I pretty much would tell you the same thing that MarkBarlow did.

 

[BrandonLucas]

The problem is that those are the only 2 choices that I have...or else just train at home, which I do anyway. But I was wanting to get back into a school to learn more...but those are the only 2 around my area that I can go to...I could travel and pay way more money, but I can't financially afford to do that, and I would pretty much be gone from home all day...and I have a wife that would object to that.

 

[MarkBarlow]

What about teaching a TKD class yourself? Offer a kid's class at a YMCA, rec center or church and work on basics, basics, basics. When you feel competent to train adults, expand the class.
Be honest with your friend and tell him that you prefer to focus on one art and this will allow you to do so.
If you feel the need to be affiliated with a TKD organization, talk to some of the TKD folks on this board and get their opinion of which group provides the most support with the least drama.

 

[jks9199]

The problem is that those are the only 2 choices that I have...or else just train at home, which I do anyway. But I was wanting to get back into a school to learn more...but those are the only 2 around my area that I can go to...I could travel and pay way more money, but I can't financially afford to do that, and I would pretty much be gone from home all day...and I have a wife that would object to that.

I have a hard time believing that in this day and age, in an area where someone runs what sounds like a head shop in the front of his martial arts school, that you only have two choices.

If nothing else, there's almost certainly tons of TKD schools in the area...

But why limit yourself? Just as a starting point, look beyond the commercial schools; you may find a number of non-commercial (or at least, non-storefront) schools in the area. They may teach in backyards, they may teach in community centers, or parks... They may not advertise much, either. (The only advertising my class does at the moment is a poster at the community center...)

 

[Kacey]

I agree with your concerns. I've been to plenty of seminars and never been given more than a certificate of participation - I can't see accepting rank based on a seminar instead of long-term study; teaching an "art" based on those "ranks" would be questionable, at best, and the lack of consistency would be concerning as well.

The substances being sold are a different sort of concern. Selling those substances is not illegal, any more than selling drug paraphernalia is illegal (at least, it wasn't illegal in CO, the last time I checked) - it's the uses to which they can be put that is problematic. If, after 8 years, you were finally aware of what the substances were used for, but were never approached to buy them - or any of the substances they may be intended to be used with - I dunno. If you were approached to buy those other substances, that's a different problem - if it were me, I'd never go back. If it's only the former, well, lots of places that deal in herbal remedies sell that stuff, and while it's morally iffy, it's not illegal - and it is a good money maker. I can't really say what I'd do in your place if that's the extent of it - but I know I wouldn't take my kids (if I had any), and I'd watch what I was offered to eat or drink.

Being in TKD myself, I'm not sure what a "recommended" rank is - but I have been told by my instructor when I would be testing, and for BB ranks I've generally been told 6-12 months in advance, which could easily be the same thing... but being told to test and being told that "recommended" rank is the next rank is not quite the same thing, I think - but I really don't know.

What part of the world are you in? People on the board may have some other ideas for your for training if you let us know the general area you live in.

 

[BrandonLucas]

I've actually thought of the teaching idea myself, but I don't feel like I'm ready to take on that kind of responsibility at this time in my life...I'm very out of shape and practice, and I would prefer to have someone instruct me...but I do want to become a teacher none the less. I just don't want to end up doing the same thing my friend did, which is basically take on a instructional role before I'm ready. I will try to talk to him and explain that I don't want to limit myself, and I guess the old addage is true that if he's a true friend, he'll understand.

As far as there being other options, I assure you there are none around here. I'm in South Georgia...pretty far south...there's not much here in my town or anything an hour surrounding me that I could afford to go to...there are a couple of TKD schools about 30 minutes from me, but I can't afford their prices...it's up to 85 dollars a month with those guys. I guess what I'm really trying to do here is justify going back to my previous instructor...he only charges 30 dollars a month, and is in the same town as I am, so distance and gas is not a factor there. I just don't want to feel like I'm selling out by going back to him. But, I would only be going back long enough to receive enough instruction to feel comfortable teaching on my own...I have another friend that used to go, and wants to go back with me...he's not a black belt yet, and wants to earn his while I relearn what I learned. Like I said, I think I'm just trying to justify this whole thing in my mind. I really don't know. I know it sounds redicilous for me to come on this forum to try to make up my mind about it, but I really don't know what to do at this point.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

What about teaching a TKD class yourself? Offer a kid's class at a YMCA, rec center or church and work on basics, basics, basics. When you feel competent to train adults, expand the class.
Be honest with your friend and tell him that you prefer to focus on one art and this will allow you to do so.
If you feel the need to be affiliated with a TKD organization, talk to some of the TKD folks on this board and get their opinion of which group provides the most support with the least drama.

That is a good recommendation.
Also, if you start your own class, you will find that you will end up meeting other "orphan" martial artists such as yourself.
If you don't want to start your own thing, consider starting a training group at a local park. You can use your local newspaper and sites like www.meetup.com to find others to meet you and work out. You will be surprised who may show up.

AoG

 

[Kacey]

And here's another thought:

If you are motivated enough to learn, you can find a good instructor who will be willing to work with you from a distance, through video, email, and occasional (say, 2-4 times per year) visits. It's a lot harder to do - but it can be done. In fact, I 'm sure there are people here on MT who would be willing and able to help you, either directly or by helping you find just such an instructor.

 

[terryl965]

The problem is that those are the only 2 choices that I have...or else just train at home, which I do anyway. But I was wanting to get back into a school to learn more...but those are the only 2 around my area that I can go to...I could travel and pay way more money, but I can't financially afford to do that, and I would pretty much be gone from home all day...and I have a wife that would object to that.

Ok I'm confuse are these the only two schools in your area? Why are these the only option. I would be looking for a door number three like what was said earlier.

 

[Phoenix44]

Do you want to go around forever wondering if your martial arts pedigree is "questionable"? If that means something to you, then find a reputable studio or instructor. If it doesn't matter to you, then go wherever you think you'd get good, affordable training.

BTW, I never heard of a "recommended" rank either, unless it means you're scheduled for testing or promotion the next cycle.

 

[BrandonLucas]

I really appreciate the help with all of this...I am going to look into finding another instructor to help train from a distance like you were talking about, Kacey...I also think for now that I am going to try going back to my first instructor...the points you made were actually points I hadn't thought of before, Kacey. He never did offer me any of those products..in fact, the only reason I found out about them was because he offered me a summer job running the herb shop, and I was pretty much required to know what I was selling. Other than that, I never had any contact with the stuff. I think I would rather do that than continue training by myself for a long time.

I live in South GA, where the only things to do around here are hang out at the movies and at Wal-Mart. And no, I'm not kidding. That's why there's not much of a selection of martial arts schools around.

I am also wondering how it is that you can be granted a black belt through a 3 day seminar of an art that you've never taken before? I don't mean any offense to anyone by this question, but I have wondered that for a long time now, how someone can just go one weekend to a seminar and come back with a black belt. I understand that having prior martial arts experience helps you understand other arts better than someone with no martial arts experience or knowledge. But I don't understand how you can be told that you have basically met the requirements of someone who has trained for several years in this particular art, and can be given that rank, no matter your physical conditioning. If anyone has done this, (I have never been to one of these seminars, so I don't know first hand), please explain how this works.

 

[Phoenix44]

I can get a black belt for $5 at the local martial art supply store just as I can get a diploma at Staples.

If you consider "black belt" to be a sign of commitment, dedication, time, effort, and some level of mastery of the basics of an art, then, seriously how can that be accomplished in a week?

 

[BrandonLucas]

BTW, my friend's dojo is the one that azmyth is talking about in the thread below this one.

 

[Brian King]

“it's up to 85 dollars a month with those guys. I guess what I'm really trying to do here is justify going back to my previous instructor...he only charges 30 dollars a month, and is in the same town as I am, so distance and gas is not a factor there.”

So you wish to sell your morals for $60.00 a month? People have sold them for less I guess, I hope that you get your moneys worth.

BrandonLucus I strongly suggest that you read your signature line and get what you need elsewhere.

Good luck
Brian King

 

[ArmorOfGod]

I live in South GA, where the only things to do around here are hang out at the movies and at Wal-Mart. And no, I'm not kidding. That's why there's not much of a selection of martial arts schools around.

Which part of South GA? How close are you to Augusta?

AoG

 

[BrandonLucas]

I can get a black belt for $5 at the local martial art supply store just as I can get a diploma at Staples.

If you consider "black belt" to be a sign of commitment, dedication, time, effort, and some level of mastery of the basics of an art, then, seriously how can that be accomplished in a week?

That's exactly how I see it.

 

[BrandonLucas]

Which part of South GA? How close are you to Augusta?

AoG

I'm in a small town called Cordele, about an hour or so south of Macon.

 

[Phoenix44]

BTW, my friend's dojo is the one that azmyth is talking about in the thread below this one.

Yeah, I'd say you have a problem.

What about local colleges? Sometimes they offer a martial arts curriculum on an "adult ed" basis that could be considerably less expensive than a dojo. Maybe you could meet other quality martial artists this way, and then train together.

What about training less frequently at a good studio a little further away? This could be productive and less expensive, too. I train once/week in tai chi at a studio about 50 minutes from my home, and then train with my partner at home during the week. I know some people who travel even further than that less frequently to get good training.