Pyung Ahn 2

dvcochran

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I posted this in the Korean general forum hoping to get replies from any style. I know the numbering varies from style/school to style/school so for reference I am asking about the Pyung Ahn form where the first move is a double move; a high block and an outside block done together. Which blocking arm to you have on TOP? This came up in a discussion with several BB's last night. All of the longer term BB's immediately said high block on top. Top my surprise, some BB's did not know and some said the outside block.
So I am asking the forum; not for just an answer but for the why.
Here is mine; the high block is a vertical movement and because of the outside block in play, you cannot twist the body as you normally would so the blocking arm simply travels straight up. The outside block is a "cross-draw", lateral movement so if the high block was on the bottom you could not cross draw, and would throw the high block off its intended course. The Um Yong for the high block is generated from the outside block.
Thanks for the input.
 

JR 137

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Do you mean which hand is on top when your hands are chambered before the block? If so, the hand that goes up to do the high block portion is the bottom hand. Just natural instinct, I guess; if youre turning to face the left (first count), your right hand would be your reverse punch hand, so it would go into chamber with the palm up, and the other fist would be vertical and sitting on top of it. Reverse all of that for facing right.

Ive never thought about it before. I had to go through the motions a few times before answering. What youre saying makes sense if Im interpreting you correctly. But reversing my hands just feels awkward. I guess if youve done it one way for 10 years, it would feel awkward regardless if it was right or wrong though :)

Heres the closest version of what we do. Theres a few subtle differences, but its pretty much the same:
 
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dvcochran

dvcochran

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Do you mean which hand is on top when your hands are chambered before the block? If so, the hand that goes up to do the high block portion is the bottom hand. Just natural instinct, I guess; if youre turning to face the left (first count), your right hand would be your reverse punch hand, so it would go into chamber with the palm up, and the other fist would be vertical and sitting on top of it. Reverse all of that for facing right.

Ive never thought about it before. I had to go through the motions a few times before answering. What youre saying makes sense if Im interpreting you correctly. But reversing my hands just feels awkward. I guess if youve done it one way for 10 years, it would feel awkward regardless if it was right or wrong though :)

Heres the closest version of what we do. Theres a few subtle differences, but its pretty much the same:
I have watched at least 20 Youtube videos of the form. There is no general consensus that I can tell. I think you are talking about the traditional ready hand position? Side hand on bottom palm up, cross hand on top palm down? Then I would agree the outside block is on top. When we step into the back stance we cross the arms, as a defensive posture, to make power for the outside block, and to allow the high block to travel in the correct vertical trajectory instead of coming from the outside of the body like many beginners do when learning a high block.
Your post is what I am hoping to hear from everyone. Thanks
 

Bruce7

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I posted this in the Korean general forum hoping to get replies from any style. I know the numbering varies from style/school to style/school so for reference I am asking about the Pyung Ahn form where the first move is a double move; a high block and an outside block done together. Which blocking arm to you have on TOP? This came up in a discussion with several BB's last night. All of the longer term BB's immediately said high block on top. Top my surprise, some BB's did not know and some said the outside block.
So I am asking the forum; not for just an answer but for the why.
Here is mine; the high block is a vertical movement and because of the outside block in play, you cannot twist the body as you normally would so the blocking arm simply travels straight up. The outside block is a "cross-draw", lateral movement so if the high block was on the bottom you could not cross draw, and would throw the high block off its intended course. The Um Yong for the high block is generated from the outside block.
Thanks for the input.
That is a very good question.
I have watched many videos on this and they all do it differently and most seem workable.
This is how I remember It.
 

paitingman

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Great question!
I'm really sitting here stumped lol.
I've always had my high block on the outside, but I'm struggling to recall any details about the matter. Or come up with any concrete reason for myself.
I feel like I want to say it doesn't matter since it obviously hasn't mattered to me this whole time! haha
I'm interested to see what everyone here has to say
 
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dvcochran

dvcochran

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That is a very good question.
I have watched many videos on this and they all do it differently and most seem workable.
This is how I remember It.
I saw it done that way several times when surfing Youtube videos where the same arm is on top for both sides. The arms also changed from video to video. I am certain that is incorrect for the way we practice the form.
 

Bruce7

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I saw it done that way several times when surfing Youtube videos where the same arm is on top for both sides. The arms also changed from video to video. I am certain that is incorrect for the way we practice the form.
I have also done it this way.
I don't remember which MA only the movement.
 
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dvcochran

dvcochran

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I have also done it this way.
I don't remember which MA only the movement.
I do see that the heavily Japanese influenced styles appear to chamber the hands at the ready position. If that is correct then the high blocking arm would be on the bottom. This is exactly the sort of thing I am trying to figure out.
 

Bruce7

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Do you mean which hand is on top when your hands are chambered before the block? If so, the hand that goes up to do the high block portion is the bottom hand. Just natural instinct, I guess; if youre turning to face the left (first count), your right hand would be your reverse punch hand, so it would go into chamber with the palm up, and the other fist would be vertical and sitting on top of it. Reverse all of that for facing right.

Ive never thought about it before. I had to go through the motions a few times before answering. What youre saying makes sense if Im interpreting you correctly. But reversing my hands just feels awkward. I guess if youve done it one way for 10 years, it would feel awkward regardless if it was right or wrong though :)

Heres the closest version of what we do. Theres a few subtle differences, but its pretty much the same:
Their seems to be many ways to do this block, and each way seems to generate its power in different ways.
 

JR 137

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That is a very good question.
I have watched many videos on this and they all do it differently and most seem workable.
This is how I remember It.
Is this textbook TKD way of doing it, or is he different than the norm. Its interesting seeing a/the TKD version of it.

The biggest thing that stood out to me is he looks the wrong way (at least wrong to us) before turning. Hard to describe, but watch at :25 sec and:43 sec. He looks over one shoulder before the turn, then the other as he turns. Its a big no-no to us.
 

Bruce7

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Is this textbook TKD way of doing it, or is he different than the norm. Its interesting seeing a/the TKD version of it.

The biggest thing that stood out to me is he looks the wrong way (at least wrong to us) before turning. Hard to describe, but watch at :25 sec and:43 sec. He looks over one shoulder before the turn, then the other as he turns. Its a big no-no to us.

I am guessing no because I have seen TKD videos that are done differently.
I don't think there is a textbook why to do the block.
 
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dvcochran

dvcochran

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Is this textbook TKD way of doing it, or is he different than the norm. Its interesting seeing a/the TKD version of it.

The biggest thing that stood out to me is he looks the wrong way (at least wrong to us) before turning. Hard to describe, but watch at :25 sec and:43 sec. He looks over one shoulder before the turn, then the other as he turns. Its a big no-no to us.
I think that is part of the problem of finding a straight answer, there is no textbook answers. Or there are a lot of different textbooks.

For a lot of TKD schools, particularly WT, ITF, and ATA schools the Pyung Ahn poomsae are not taught. They are mostly a MDK form.
 

JR 137

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I am guessing no because I have seen TKD videos that are done differently.
I don't think there is a textbook why to do the block.
I think that is part of the problem of finding a straight answer, there is no textbook answers. Or there are a lot of different textbooks.

For a lot of TKD schools, particularly WT, ITF, and ATA schools the Pyung Ahn poomsae are not taught. They are mostly a MDK form.

I was asking textbook way of doing the form itself rather than just the block. But yeah, stupid question. Take karate for example - theres some differences, subtle and outright, between the Kyokushin video I linked to and the Shotokan video dvcochran linked to. The Shotokan is far closer to textbook across the karate world than the Kyokushin one, but both are textbook for their respective style.

Its interesting to see the TKD variation. The changes to/emphasis on body mechanics arent my cup of tea, but I respect what I think their aim is. A different way of generating power IMO.
 
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