Poomse/Form

[pczerwin]

Hi, I am new member to this forum. I am a second degree black belt in the art of TaeKwonDo. I have been training for 11 years and am continually amazed that even after all this time, there is so much more to learn.

Presently, I am learning a new form at my school. While my teacher is instructing us on the new movements for this form, I wanted to be able to read about it and study it perhaps in a book or on tape, myself. Unfortunately, he has not given me a specific name for this form and so I am unable to find it anywhere.

I was hopeing that if I described the first two motions, which we have begun to learn, perhaps it would ring a bell with someone and they might be able to direct me at to it's name and where I might be able to find some supplimental material on the form.

These are the first two motions - I believe there are 10 of these kinds of sets of motions, in total.

Our joombe begins in front stance with a slow double palm block, left hand
pushing forward, mid section, right hand blocking down, low section, back stance - facing forward.
The first motion is a quick finger strike with the back of the left hand in front stance,
followed with a quick high punch, right hand. You leave your right arm
extended to support your left hand which pulls back and goes forward quickly
for a mid section punch. The final motion is to pull both hands back to your
right hip, then execute a double front punch, left hand back fist, right
hand, straight punch.

The second begins with the same joombe but then you place your left and
right hand on your left hip, swinging your arms outward, to the right side
as you execute a right front kick. You quickly execute a fake left hand
outer block, then immediately bring that hand back to a palm block which
will support your right hand which then executes a right straight punch. As
you turn to the back, your left hand quickly executes a left high block as
you kneel down on your right leg, right hand punchs right with a knuckle
punch. As you stand up, you perform the same motions you did in the
beginning, chambering to your left hip, then over to your right and front
kick and finally end up facing forward once again.
Thanks in advance and I look forward to learning more from this site and hope to contribute myself.

Pamela

 

[Kacey]

First, welcome, and happy posting! :wavey:

Second, it would help if you identify your current affiliation (ITF, WTF, etc.) and maybe some of the forms you already know - then people might be better able to point you to appropriate information.

 

[Telos]

uh....sunds ITF posibly? a couple ohggeerblack bet poomsaae involve th kind of move. Sam-ill or maybe yoo-sin? i'dhave to look into because sounds higher than the level i'm currently at in wtf and itf... but i have seen a poomsae performed that ssunds similar to your descriptioat a tourney.

 

[Kacey]

uh....sunds ITF posibly? a couple ohggeerblack bet poomsaae involve th kind of move. Sam-ill or maybe yoo-sin? i'dhave to look into because sounds higher than the level i'm currently at in wtf and itf... but i have seen a poomsae performed that ssunds similar to your descriptioat a tourney.

I know Sam-Il and Yu-Sin; it's not either one of them.

 

[pczerwin]

Thank you for the welcome.

Although I myself teach and practice both the WTF and ITF poomse, my present school only practices WTF.

The only thing I have been told is that this is a black belt level poomse and is called Hwarang 1 and Hwarang 2. The only Hwarang I know of is an ITF poomse and this is nothing like it. I don't even know of any forms that only face forward or backwards. All the forms I have learned got in all four directions and always begin to the left.

I have even looked at the Paugue forms but it is not one of those either.

I will keep searching for it, and a clearer name. If you think of any others that might resemble this forms, I appreciate the information!

Thanks!

Pamela

 

[crushing]

It doesn't sound like anything I have ever done, so I think you can eliminate the Pyung Ahns, Palgwes, Naihanchi, Shipsoo, Nohai, Koryo, and Bassai. I wish I could tell you what they are, instead of what they aren't.

Good luck with your search!

 

[Miles]

Welcome to MT Pamela! I don't recognize the poomsae you've described. Perhaps once you've asked your instructor for further information, you will be able to find a video of it on the internet.

Miles

 

[terryl965]

Pamela it sounds like one of Joon Rhee poomsae but the name is not at the top of my head right now Just got back from the meet and greet and I'm tired will look tommorrow for you.

 

[kik]

PCZERWIN, welcome to the board. The poomsae you are now going to learn for your 3rd Dan is called tae bek or tae bak. It is a fun form, enjoy it as 4th Dan, Pyonwan isn't as much fun as it's only done on one line. Just remember don't stand to tall. Make sure your stances are a little wider than usual. Grand master Kwan chewed me a new one for standing to tall, and when he was done with me he went after my master and chewed him a new one for teaching me that way. My master was GM kwan's student. So needless to say he wasn't happy to find out that his students weren't teaching the way he taught them. He did pass us but we were made to come back and train under him for a month before we recieved our certificates.

 

[terryl965]

I do not believe this is Tae baek, we do this form and it does not start out this way. Our way is turning to the left with a x-block high into a doubleknifehand block going outward in the low position and then followed with a snap kick to the face, then turning in a 180 degree motion to you right and repaeting the same tchniques.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

Certainly not the Taebaek I know (WTF).

 

[pczerwin]

Thank you Terry for looking into the Master Rhee poomse. I have a few of his books but have been unable to find that form. I appreciate any help you might be able to give me. I went to Borders today and checked out the only book I could find on Hwarang Do but it was not in there either. I ordered a book on line for Tang Soo Do by Grand Master Ho Sik Pak. Hopefully that will give me some direction.

My boys and I have already started to learn Taebaek. It is a beautiful form. I am a big fan of Poomse, in case anyone couldn't tell haha. I think they add so much to your training. Keum-Gang I will confess is not one of my favorite but honestly, I am more appreciative of its style and value as time goes on.

Next week we are supposed to start learning Hwarang 3.

I did mention to my Master that I could not find the form on line and he just kinda laughed and said he was surprised. Maybe after he shows us the 4th part, I will be brave enough to ask him for more direction. It is not really that I am afraid to ask but he just seems so vague about it and like he doesn't want to tell us where it is from plus I don't want him to think I am trying to find more information than he can provide. You know what I mean? Teachers sometimes get annoyed when they think you are trying to suppliment their teachings. I personally love when my own students find things. I mean, it means more for me to learn!

Thanks again!

Pamela

By the way, how come my name reads as White Belt? Does anyone know how to change that? When I put in my profile I listed myself as a second Dan but it still comes up as white belt on the forum.

 

[pczerwin]

Hi Kik, Good to be here.

I am not sure I understand what you mean about standing low. Funny thing is, I learned TKD in the traiditional style and we had to fight in a very low stance. My school now is more modern on some things and a higher fighting stance is something I am having a very hard time adjusting to. I guess it is hard to break old habits.

Anyway, when you speak of a low stance, do you mean in the first motion? With the X block? I am not 100% where you mean.

Any poomse advice is always appreciated.

I was watching a clip on You Tube the other day and the guy asked about chambering. It was really an interesting question. Our first poose was four way punch. For that form we sort of twisted our bodies and then as we set up for the block, we spun the other way, untwisting to block. His question was why when you see poomse direction in most books, the chamber is high or low and pretty robotic but as the forms progress they seem to be more of these twisting motions, like in the four way punch that I learned a long long time ago. I thought it was a really good question and something worth looking into.

 

[Kacey]

By the way, how come my name reads as White Belt? Does anyone know how to change that? When I put in my profile I listed myself as a second Dan but it still comes up as white belt on the forum.

Because your forum rank refers to the number of posts you've made - it has nothing to do with your actual rank off the board. And don't feel bad about asking; about half the people who register on MT come up with the same question!

 

[Bumblebee]

I think it might be Keumgang. I think that's the 2nd Dan poomse. I'm only a blue belt, so I'm not 100% sure, but I think that's what it's called. This is in the WTF by the way.

Here's a link to some videos, I came across recently with a bunch of poomse in it. You can probably watch some of them and find out what poomse you're looking for. The vids are small, but once you learn the name you can just look them up on Youtube for a bigger video. Hope it helps.

http://www.natkd.com/taeguek.htm

 

[terryl965]

Yes it is Kuamgang the second degree BB form

 

[Bumblebee]

Uh Yeah! That's why they call me the honorary black belt! Haha. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[WMKS Shogun]

Odd thought. Could the form have been from HwarangDo that has been assimilated into your school somehow? Just a thought. It is not any form I am familiar with...but it does sound similar to some of the tae soo do and Hwarang Do forms I have seen.

 

[TKDmel]

Yes it is Kuamgang the second degree BB form

Kuemgang, as shown on the KKW site and as I have been taught is from joonbe, to middle double in to out forearm block, stepping middle palm strike, done 3 times(front stance), stepping back middle out to in knifehand strike (back stance) done 3 times, etc. What was described in the first post isn't kuemgang unless its being taught differently, or I have misinterpreted the description.

 

[terryl965]

Kuemgang, as shown on the KKW site and as I have been taught is from joonbe, to middle double in to out forearm block, stepping middle palm strike, done 3 times(front stance), stepping back middle out to in knifehand strike (back stance) done 3 times, etc. What was described in the first post isn't kuemgang unless its being taught differently, or I have misinterpreted the description.

Sorry TKDmel I know it is not Kwemgang, I was just playing around. Here is what I believe it is Kanku
Kanku (65 movements)

Direction (+)MovementStanceActionN--Feet together
(chest-N)Ready position. Both hands are open in front of belt, palms downward, only the index fingers and thumbs of each hand touch one another so that they form a triangle shape. // Keeping the arms straight (elbows only *slightly* bent) raise your arms above your head so that the palms now face above and away from you. // Sharply separate your hands from one another, thrusting them out to the side. Then, slowly continue this downward arcing motion until both hands are open and palm-up in front of belt.WLf toward WL backMiddle knifehand guarding blocksECW (180*)R backMiddle knifehand guarding blocksNPivot feetHorse (chest-N)L outward knifehand block (knifehand is vertical)N--Horse (chest-N)R middle straight punchNPivot CCW 90*<chest faces W>R outward middle forearm block (ulna side)NPivot CW 90*Horse (chest-N)L middle straight punchNPivot CW 90*<chest faces E>L outward middle forearm blockSBring the Lf -> Rf, then raise the right kneeL crane stanceChamber leg a side kick to S (both fists chambered at opposite hip)S----R side kickNDrop Rf behindL backMiddle knifehand guarding blocksNForwardR backMiddle knifehand guarding blocksNForwardL backMiddle knifehand guarding blocksNForwardR frontR middle vertical spear thrust <Yell!>SCCW (180*)L frontSimultaneously do:
L upward knifehand block
R inside knifehand strike (to the opponent's temple)S----R front kick (maintain hand positions)NDrop Rf behindL backSimultaneously do:
L low forearm block (to N)
R high outside forearm block (to S) (ulna side)
Then, follow quickly by...NShift LfL frontR low spearhand strike (palm up) (L-knifehand blocking at R-shoulder)NPull Lf backL catL low forearm block <Slowly & Exhaling>NShift LfL frontSimultaneously do:
L upward knifehand block
R inside knifehand strike (to the opponent's temple)N----R front kick (maintain hand positions)SDrop Rf behindL backSimultaneously do:
L low forearm block (to S)
R high outside forearm block (to N) (ulna side)
Then, follow quickly by...SShift LfL frontR low spearhand strike (palm up) (as above)SPull Lf backL catL low forearm block <Slowly & Exhaling>EBring Lf -> R kneeR craneChest faces S, but you will be looking toward E with both fists chambered at opposite hip.E----L side kickEDrop Lf forwardL frontR horizontal elbow strike (into the L palm)WBring Rf -> L kneeL craneChest face S, but you will be looking toward W with both fists chambered at opposite hip.W----R side kickWDrop Rf forwardR frontL horizontal elbow strike (into the R palm)EPivot 180* CCWL backMiddle knifehand guarding blocksSERf toward SE (45*)R backMiddle knifehand guarding blocksWCW (135*)R backMiddle knifehand guarding blocksSWLf toward SW (45*)L backMiddle knifehand guarding blocksSShift LfL frontSimultaneously do:
L upward knifehand block
R inside knifehand strike (to the opponent's temple)S----R front kickSDrop Rf forward and immediately bring Lf up behind it.R x'd in front of L (chest-E)R backfist strike (left hand chambered at belt)SLf backwardR frontR middle outside forearm block (ulna side)S--R frontL middle reverse punch, followed quickly by
R middle straight punchNPivot CW (180*) to face NL craneSimultaneously do:
R upward knee strike
R close-in uppercut punch (left open hand should rest against the right wrist)NLet your body weight fall completely and your right foot move forward in the direction of N so that your weight comes down on both hands, trying not to bend your elbows. Your feet should be in a position that looks like an elongated right front stance. Keep your eyes straight ahead (i.e. toward N). This is a 'duck for cover'.SCCW (180*)L backKeeping feet in their current positions, Low knifehand guarding blocksSRf forwardR backMiddle knifehand guarding blocksWCCW (270*)L frontL outward middle forearm block (ulna side), followed quickly by..
R middle reverse punchECW (180*)R frontR outward middle forearm block (ulna side), followed quickly by..
L middle reverse punchE--R frontR middle straight punchSRf -> L-kneeL crane (chest-E)Eyes toward S, fists chambered at opposite hipS----R side kickNDrop Rf toward S, then pivot 180* CCWL backMiddle knifehand guarding blocksNRf forwardR frontR middle spearhand thrust (hand is vertical) (left knifehand blocks at the right shoulder)NTucking the right arm behind your back, advance toward N by turning CCW one full rotation...L backL vertical backfist strikeN--L backSwing left fist inward and then outward again as if shaking off someone's grasp.NPivot intoL frontR horizontal elbow strike (into the left palm)SMove Lf slightly to assumeHorse (chest-E)chamber both fists at left hip and eyes toward SS--Horse (chest-E)R low forearm blockSLift the Lf high into the air (to STOMP), move forward pivoting on the ball of the Rf. As left foot STOMPS(chest-W)L low forearm block (to S)
R high outside forearm block (ulna side)SMaintaining the same stance, draw your left arm inward and in front of you slightly. Then do a downward punch with your right fist so that it crosses your left. Both fists should now be crossed, left over right, in front of belt.SStraighten the knees, bringing the feet closer together Rising knifehand X-block (in direction of W)SPivoting on ball of Rf, move Lf toward N, turning CW (270*) to face S.R frontClench both hands into fists and lower them SLOWLY to about mid-chest level.SJUMP forward off the Rf L jump front kick, followed quickly by
R jump front kick <Yell!>
Note: both kicks are done during a single jump.S<land>R frontR downward backfist strike (left fist chambered at belt)NBring Lf -> Rf, pivoting 180* CCW to face N.Feet together (chest-N)In a movement complimentary to the wide opening of arms at the beginning of this pattern, do a closing movement here before resuming the attention stance.N----Ready/End.

If this is right let me know.