-Truth in combat is my only agenda.shesulsa said:I'm thinking, most likely an alternate agenda.
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-Truth in combat is my only agenda.shesulsa said:I'm thinking, most likely an alternate agenda.
-That key toy is a pocket stick. The web site makes claims about them. That is topical to this thread imo.shesulsa said:Which has nothing to do with this thread or your opinions on short stick fighting. Stay on topic with us here. Your experience is extremely limited and your arguments dubious - what say you now on this topic?
RoninPimp said:-I have not wasted much time with lame drills with a pocket stick. People claim to spar hard with them, but never go into detail. My hunch is that those with "expert and lengthy training" are only doing the bad drills like I have done, and like posted in the bad videos. I have yet to see any claims of Dog Brothers esque sparring with pocket sticks.
RoninPimp said:-Truth in combat is my only agenda.
"Viable and effective" are subjective. I would argue that my hands on with pockets sticks is more than a lot of people's that claim their effectiveness.shesulsa said:And you likely won't because videos are just videos. People who have received viable, effective training are, despite your implied assertions, not obliged to prove anything to you whatsover in this medium or otherwise.
Your condemnation of things which you admittedly do not know much of proves the worthlessness of your arguments.
-FYI, I am a Marine Corps vet. I was speaking in civilian terms though.shesulsa said:Yeah? Join the armed forces and take every weapon imaginable INTO combat - after expert training in all these things of course - and THEN we'll consider your arguments worth reading.
RoninPimp said:"Viable and effective" are subjective.
RoninPimp said:I would argue that my hands on with pockets sticks is more than a lot of people's that claim their effectiveness.
-Being a Marine Corps vet is not subjective. I have not seen combat. All my training with weapons was expert training as is the nature of Marine Corps training.shesulsa said:So is being a Marine Corp vet. Did you go to combat? where and when? and how much expert training did you receive with the weapons you were afforded.
OH? You've only admitted to one class of training and trying with a short stick. You think most people who claim effectiveness have not received more?
So then, if the only 'real' way to measure truth in combat is to be in combat itself, you have, admittedly, no leg to stand on.RoninPimp said:-Being a Marine Corps vet is not subjective. I have not seen combat. All my training with weapons was expert training as is the nature of Marine Corps training.
Ah yes - the true test of training - poking and prodding and underwhelmhood. I am reminded of self-training with swords and it's lack of viability and how vehemently those individuals are encouraged to train with people who have extensive, long-term training with weapons. One does not simply hack and swing a sword, nor does one simply poke and prod with a stick. Your lack of training shows and whether you like it or not, your opinion of the viability of training with such a weapon is moot because you do not have the proper training. Hence, your agenda here is crystal clear.RoninPimp said:I said nothing about "one class of training". I have played with them with a parner on more than one occasion. Poking and prodding like the proponents of them demonstrate. I was underwhelmed.
-NOBODY on this thread has civilian combat experiance with a pocket stick that they are willing to share. Their training with one is severly lacking in details too. The rest of your post attempts to insult, yet makes no sense. Your agenda as "queen bee" in "these here parts" is clear. I will not play that game. Mod status does not mean MA expertise.shesulsa said:So then, if the only 'real' way to measure truth in combat is to be in combat itself, you have, admittedly, no leg to stand on.
Ah yes - the true test of training - poking and prodding and underwhelmhood. I am reminded of self-training with swords and it's lack of viability and how vehemently those individuals are encouraged to train with people who have extensive, long-term training with weapons. One does not simply hack and swing a sword, nor does one simply poke and prod with a stick. Your lack of training shows and whether you like it or not, your opinion of the viability of training with such a weapon is moot because you do not have the proper training. Hence, your agenda here is crystal clear.
And clearly I confused your argument with that of another here who did state he spent one class attempting the use of the short stick with grappling. It's hard, sometimes, to tell you all apart.
RoninPimp said:-I think that's a bad strategy imo. So a stick helps your striking, but if you're taking time to draw it when you could be striking empty hands or drawing a lethal weapon you're wasting time imo.
-A cop using a pocket stick doesn't mean it carries over to civilian SD. The cop's job and legal obligations are way different that a civilian's
"Viable and effective" are subjective. I would argue that my hands on with pockets sticks is more than a lot of people's that claim their effectiveness.
-I have not wasted much time with lame drills with a pocket stick. People claim to spar hard with them, but never go into detail. My hunch is that those with "expert and lengthy training" are only doing the bad drills like I have done, and like posted in the bad videos. I have yet to see any claims of Dog Brothers esque sparring with pocket sticks.
I fooled around with some buddies, not Ronin. I was vastly underwhelmed by the pocketsticks potential for grappling. A lot of people criticized my methodology, and they were reasonably justified in doing so. However NONE of them gave me any evidence to show me why I was wrong.Don Roley said:You fooled around with some buddies.
shesula said:And clearly I confused your argument with that of another here who did state he spent one class attempting the use of the short stick with grappling. It's hard, sometimes, to tell you all apart.
MardiGras Bandit said:At the risk of turning this thread into a flame war, I have to respond.
I fooled around with some buddies, not Ronin. I was vastly underwhelmed by the pocketsticks potential for grappling. A lot of people criticized my methodology, and they were reasonably justified in doing so. However NONE of them gave me any evidence to show me why I was wrong.
Carol Kaur said:So, on the subject of risk...
Is if fair to say that a risk of using pocket sticks is the reaction time? That drawing a stick is be slower than using one's fists?
If I were to grasp at some straws...would it also be fair to say that such a risk can be overcome with proper training...as proper training in any fighting skill addresses both use and application?
RoninPimp said:-I've never disrespected anybody's right to believe anything.
So a stick helps your striking, but if you're taking time to draw it when you could be striking empty hands or drawing a lethal weapon you're wasting time imo
RoninPimp said:-The following is quoted on the site Drac linked..."If properly used and trained with this tool, even a child can escape from the attack of a full grown man." That is complete and utter BS. It is also irresponsible imo. The video is also a joke. This is one more piece of evidence showing why I believe pocket sticks are WAY over rated.
I predict that your predictions will be correctI haven't done the experiment yet. However, I predict that the outcome would be...both made an impact, but the impact from the kubotan would be smaller, more focused, and much deeper.
What do you think?