Please help me decide between these three Martial Arts schools in my area

Steve

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Name one spiritual benefit from MMA. I'm not talking about something spiritual that someone brings with them to MMA. I'm talking about something spiritual that is taught in MMA. What is the spiritual teaching that MMA brings to the world.?
Happiness
 

Steve

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There's a big difference between angry people on the phone and angry people in person. No one trains self-defense by going to call center training.
How much experience do you have dealing with angry people in general? In person or on a phone? how much training do you have on de-escalation? I mean, formal training, but you can share informal training, too.

Because, I can tell you that the skills involved in de-escalation are the same on the phone or in person. What you're talking about are the consequences for failure, which is not the same as the skills and techniques involved with success.

And as you identified de-escalation as a key component of self defense, I am sharing with you that there are much better places to learn de-escalation than from some random TMA guy who may be completely unqualified. So, while folks may not take a job at a call center to learn self defense, the opposite is true... I believe folks who work at call centers are likely better prepared to de-escalate a volatile situation than folks who think they're learning de-escalation skills by training in martial arts. It's as unlikely to be true as if they were expecting to learn de-escalation skills at their yoga class.
 

Steve

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In other news, I hope the OP comes back. Interested to hear where he's headed.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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In other news, I hope the OP comes back. Interested to hear where he's headed.
I get the feeling he's glazed over the last two pages of mma vs. tma arguing that's going on, if he's still reading at all. Especially since he didn't ask about an MMA school or any kung-fu/yoga based tma schools.
 

JowGaWolf

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People who work in government, in 800 number call centers, in food service, as flight attendants... now THOSE people are learning real world deescalation skills, and I would bet that many have excellent training on the topic.
Food services don't learn de-escalation like you think they do.
800 Call centers don't learn de-escalation like you think they do.
This is your fligt attendants learning self-defense

Looks like a lot of what many TMA classes do, which is to teach self-defense to people who aren't interested in fighting competitions.




What I would suggest is that if you stop thinking of martial arts schools as "self defense" schools, and instead think of them as what they are (a place to learn to fight), then you start to think of self defense in a much more constructive manner.
Yeah I'm pretty sure the Majority of TMA schools don't think of themselves as "A place to learn to fight."
Out of the two of us only one of us got kicked out of a Martial Arts schools because "they focused too much on fighting." and it wasn't you.

As much as I enjoy fighting and using Kung Fu. I would never and have never positioned my training, the school that I taught at, the students, nor my son to think of Kung Fu as only being about fighting. I feel sorry for those who go to a Kung Fu school and the only thing they learn and get out of it is "How to fight." That's such a shallow experience.

This idea that TMA has a monopoly on it is silly.
Go to a TMA school and ask the school about the things they teach. It will not be the same answer that an MMA school gives. You can visit websites and you'll see that the focus is different. There will be some things that are similar but the focus isn't.

What I'm saying isn't my belief. It's clearly stated an demonstrated by TMA school and MMA gyms.
So, the metric you're using now is longevity? That seems arbitrary.
It's not arbitrary. Maybe that's something important to the OP
 

Steve

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I get the feeling he's glazed over the last two pages of mma vs. tma arguing that's going on, if he's still reading at all. Especially since he didn't ask about an MMA school or any kung-fu/yoga based tma schools.
Fair enough. I noticed he last logged on Sunday, so I don't think he's actually seen any of the MMA vs TMA stuff. But I hear your point.
 

Steve

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Food services don't learn de-escalation like you think they do.
800 Call centers don't learn de-escalation like you think they do.
This is your fligt attendants learning self-defense

Looks like a lot of what many TMA classes do, which is to teach self-defense to people who aren't interested in fighting competitions.





Yeah I'm pretty sure the Majority of TMA schools don't think of themselves as "A place to learn to fight."
Out of the two of us only one of us got kicked out of a Martial Arts schools because "they focused too much on fighting." and it wasn't you.

As much as I enjoy fighting and using Kung Fu. I would never and have never positioned my training, the school that I taught at, the students, nor my son to think of Kung Fu as only being about fighting. I feel sorry for those who go to a Kung Fu school and the only thing they learn and get out of it is "How to fight." That's such a shallow experience.


Go to a TMA school and ask the school about the things they teach. It will not be the same answer that an MMA school gives. You can visit websites and you'll see that the focus is different. There will be some things that are similar but the focus isn't.

What I'm saying isn't my belief. It's clearly stated an demonstrated by TMA school and MMA gyms.

It's not arbitrary. Maybe that's something important to the OP
It actually bugs me to think he or anyone else might take anything you wrote in this thread seriously.
 

JowGaWolf

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It actually bugs me to think he or anyone else might take anything you wrote in this thread seriously.
Not sure why it bugs you. Sounds like something you should work out with yourself, then maybe we wouldn't clash so much.
 

Hanshi

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I cannot recall, off hand, who it was that said this first; maybe someone can supply that info. But it went something like this and I must paraphrase: "self-defense & fighting are only physical exercise without a philosophy. But when a philosophy is added only then can it become a martial art".

With the choices you mention doing any one of them is better than doing nothing or spending your time waiting and hoping. And true, one's reasons for starting a martial art will almost always change, possible more than once. Hard to understand at first but aikido was about the roughest, damage prone martial art I've ever studied, and I've studied 10 or more in my more than 60 years in the arts. It's also one of the best. I tell students to go where the atmosphere "feels" right, where the sensei is dedicated to developing each and every student especially the less physically talented. Now self-defense is arguably more reliant on "WILL" rather than "SKILL". I was taught that there's no such thing as "self-defense". One should not wait until a butt kicking is being administered to initiate a defense. Rather, taking a cue from the Cobra Kai handbook, one SHOULD strike first & strike hard. Not the same as starting a fight but acting on an imminent threat that one can tell is coming almost immediately.

Now this next I do not advocate unless the student is actively studying with me; and this is the use of weapons. I've trained in more traditional weapons than I can recall off hand. But I have extensive experience with "environmental" weapons. Includes but not limited to these few; plastic pocket comb, pen, handkerchief, dustpan, chair and rock, etc, etc. You can't usually get away with carrying a katana or chucks, but most everyday items and small martial arts weapons can be carried where legal. I was taught "weapons first". I now walk with a cane which is also one of the best of the weapons.

I join with many of the other posters and say DO SOMETHING. While age (itself) is not necessarily as much of a factor as many believe. One of my very best students was a lady who started with me in her mid 50s. Talk about not wanting to meet someone in an alley! Forget "sport" karate and challenge yourself.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I will say it til the cows come home( not likely because I sold them years ago) IT IS NEVER ABOUT THE STYLE, IT IS ABOUT THE PERSON PERFORMING THE STYLE! The whole argument is meaningless, it serves only to debase and devalue a style in order to elevate or defend a style. I can find skilled fighters in ANY style. To my mind, there is no such thing As one style is better than the others. None of us has practiced with or had the life experiences of the others. None of us knows how the others would actually perform in the ring, or the street, or otherwise. This is the internet, not real life, we arent facing off in the parking lot(god forbid). Its easy to get wrapped up in these nonsense arguments, I certainly have engaged in it myself. I hope that we can all agree to have respect for each Other and stop discrediting the things we havent actually experienced. We all should be able to agree that there are many skilled people in all the various martial arts. We should also all be able to agree that even with our vast collected knowledge and experiences we do not know about every skilled person in every style out there.
 

JowGaWolf

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I like you both. What I can see from reading this is that neither of you guys are very skilled at de escalating your own TMA vs MMA argument. I know because I am as guilty as anyone could be of this.
Ha ha ha. nope. Topics like that have a 9 page requirement before calling it a day.

I know I'm passionate about it, mainly because it includes so many systems and each system has its own reason and focus for doing things "the old way." One website states that there are 190+ Martial Arts systems out there yet things get boiled down to one or two things. The diversity TMA is ignored along with the variety of reasons that people may want to take it. And that's when perspectives clash.

I'll make a future effort to let some things slide in this place.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Name one spiritual benefit from MMA. I'm not talking about something spiritual that someone brings with them to MMA. I'm talking about something spiritual that is taught in MMA. What is the spiritual teaching that MMA brings to the world.?
I cant think of any reason an MMA coach couldnt be as spiritual in their approach as a TMA instructor.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Any hand-to-hand combat system (martial art) is good as long as you learn how to fight (engage your attacker). I would stay away from the schools that only teach according to the rules for competition unless you're going that route. One way to tell if the school is into sport vs defense training is seeing how students target each other during sparring (they fight how they are trained). If they only target the "legal" zones, you may not want to train with them. On the other hand, if a school teaches kicking to the knee or targeting areas that would get you disqualified in a tourney, you may be on the right track.
Id be less concerned about a school habit a strong competition focus (unless that competition is very far removed from fighting) than it having no resistance in training. There are methods that can develop fighting skill without much resistance, but its likely inconsistent, and you dont have a good way to judge your own abilities. MMA training is better for self defense prep than a lot of current TMA, because their competition is actual fighting.
 

Martial D

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Sorry, but that was not a helpful answer. If you plan to fight MMA guys, go to an MMA school. If you want to learn real-life self-defense, the kind you would normally need outside of a competitive ring, any of those karate or Tang Soo Do schools would be fine if the teacher is good, although you should go to each one and watch a class with adults to see how they behave and the kinds of skill you see. Having a good attitude and not too egotistical is important, too. No Cobra Kai stuff. Most of us don't get into physical fights as adults because we are smart. You don't need MMA to be good at self-defense, although it helps to be open to all styles.
That's one opinion.

Another is that most TMA training in no way prepares you for any real life altercation.

Sure there are exceptions. If you walk into one of those schools and people are geared up and actually sparring without any point rules or striking limitations, you might have something.
 

Martial D

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Name one spiritual benefit from MMA. I'm not talking about something spiritual that someone brings with them to MMA. I'm talking about something spiritual that is taught in MMA. What is the spiritual teaching that MMA brings to the world.?
Define spiritual. If you mean religious mumbo jumbo no, you won't find it. If you mean that trandecendant feeling of being in 'the zone' / one with your body/ connected to everything, you'll get that from rolling and sparring as much as any amount of air kata
 

JowGaWolf

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I cant think of any reason an MMA coach couldnt be as spiritual in their approach as a TMA instructor.
That's not what I'm saying. Steve gets stuff twisted when I say things.
I cant think of any reason an MMA coach couldnt be as spiritual in their approach as a TMA instructor.
That's not what I'm saying. What you are saying is where a person brings their own religion and spiritual beliefs to MMA.

To use your sentence. I'm saying that the MMA coach received his spiritual beliefs from MMA as presented by the MMA system. Which is why I asked what spiritual teachings does MMA teach. Even with some Japanese systems there is spiritual and ritual teachings that is part of the Martial Arts system.
 
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Mider

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I cant think of any reason an MMA coach couldnt be as spiritual in their approach as a TMA instructor.
That depends on the coach, watch interviews with Erik Paulson, hes very spiritual as is Guru Dan Inosanto supposedly, Silat, Kali, Muay Thai do have spiritual aspects to them.
 
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