Perfectionism - Help or Hindrance

[Last Fearner]

I tend to be a perfectionist in my own training. I find that it helps me learn things better by trying to get every detail as perfect as I can (don't always accomplish it though). I also find this character trait to be a hindrance in learning at a smooth and steady rate, so I have to adjust my behavior on this once in awhile. It can also hinder my teaching. I help my students by pushing them to reach perfection, but I have to watch it that I don't set the bar too high for some.

What is your experience on this? Are you a perfectionist, or have you learned from or trained with one? How do you deal with it? Is it a help, or a hindrance?

CM D. J. Eisenhart

P.S. LOL, I had a hard time picking an emoticon to go with this post because I did'nt feel any of them fit the topic "perfectly!" :lol2:

 

[Gemini]

Well, first, I feel that this emoticon would have been ideal for your post.

%think%

Now in answer to the question, though I'm certainly nowhere near your level, I do suffer from the same issue, so use this or discard as you will. By nature, I push myself hard and have little tolerance for mistakes. I understand that when I'm shown something new, it will take time to perfect it and I'm good with that. It's when I feel I've stopped improving, that the frustration starts. This works well for me because, hey, I can't get away from myself anyway, so I work with it.

Working with others is a different story. I've been told on many occasions I need to ease up. The belt process was put in place to show steady growth. The trick is understanding where the checkpoints are, and remembering that though a student is doing something wrong, they're where they need to be at that particular point in time.

One thing that's helped me with this is being told that a student will acheive or not regardless of what you do. You're there to show them. It's up to them to do it. If and when the student is going to push themselves to the next level is not something you can control. Manipulate? Maybe, but control...no.

 

[Xue Sheng]

There is a right way to get from point A to point B.

Example if you start with your hand at your side and the intent is to end up with your fist in front of you (throw a punch) there is a right way to get there. Performing White crane spreads its wings is more than just throwing one arm up and one arm down. All movements between point A and point B are important.

And perfection is a good thing to strive for and working at that is a help. But if you are focused on getting it perfect and nothing else is acceptable then frustration will soon follow and that is a hindrance.

 

[Andrew Green]

I think you need a bit of perfectionist in you, but too much can be counter productive.

Trying to perfect the form of one thing over and over again misses out on a great deal of other things, kind of a diminishing returns thing. You need to learn things to a "well enough" level a lot of things, then start looking at specialization.

To me thats what the whole "Black belt is the beginning" thing means. You spend a few years learning everything, not to a great level of skill, but to a useable level of skill. Getting familliar with everything.

Then, once you got a solid grounding in things as a whole you start to specialize. Take a small number of those skills and train them till you can use them on trained people even after saying "I'm going to do this too you"

Trick is knowing when you are plateauing and need to switch to something else at least for a bit

 

[TigerWoman]

To me thats what the whole "Black belt is the beginning" thing means. You spend a few years learning everything, not to a great level of skill, but to a useable level of skill. Getting familliar with everything.

Actually a TKD black belt is supposed to have a mastery of basic skills. I don't know what you do in MMA, because you don't have tests, I recall. That laundry list of skills though is quite long. But, having tests shows progress of poomse, breaking skills, slow motion kicks, mastery of all kicks to height level while jumping, self defense, sparring etc. A white belt can have a useable level of skill. A black belt has a repetroire.

Getting back to the topic, I find myself getting stuck at one skill when it is difficult. Stuff I have done in the past well, I expect to keep being able to do it despite being over 50. I tend to overwork it sometimes to the point of physical injury. So I have to rationally decide so much time to it per session and not let it bother me that it wasn't a good 360 jump or my balance is just not good that day for a back stance to a crane stance. Arrgh, bad knees + age = imbalance. Or I just have to decide that continuing to practice for a double front jump kick is impractical at my age.

I do tend to press those that are developing their forms more, one or two steps more each time. They can be as perfectionist as they desire that way And they can either strive for it by doing the practice or decide they have reached their own personal level to test and go on. I know that my white belt form, Ki Bon Hyung, as other forms, got much better as years went on as it all gets ingrained and muscles, timing, balance, details, etc. on the whole get better. Perfectionism has to be a balance. TW

 

[Touch Of Death]

Perfectionism as a negative reinforcement tool is bad; however, perfectionism as a basic goal is good.
Sean

 

[karatekid1975]

I'm just a lowly 1st gup, no where near your rank. But I am a total perfectionist. I am a technique geek to the max. I do get frustrated because of it sometimes, which is kind of a hindrance. But on the other hand, I know I can always improve.

When I show a lower rank something, I show them what a technique "should look like." But knowing they are new, I don't expect them to get it right then. I'm way harder on myself than on others.

 

[matt.m]

Oh dude you hit the nail on the head. I am hard on myself and very forgiving of others. No kidding, if I find myself doing technique all fubar I get frustrated.

However, as a side note: My organization had a tournament earlier this month. I walked up to the grandmaster and my dad, who is a master. I said to them "You guys have to be depressed." They asked why, I answered with the following...."Well you have been here all day watching everyone do everything wrong, so it has to suck." Grandmaster looked at dad and said "You know, he is funny like you, just not as clever."

I was trying to make light, but to bring about a point as well. If your too hard on yourself you will never get better, if you are too soft you wont get better. Try and find a medium.

 

[terryl965]

As being a TKD practittioner I strive for perfection everyday no-matter in the dojang or with the family, oh what that was because of my father the Master drill instructod for 40 years. Damm I keep forgetting that part.
Terry

 

[Kacey]

Perfection is a goal to strive for - but it is, in my opinion, unattainable. There are people who strive to always improve themselves, and that's good... but I know other people who strive for that unattainable goal of total perfection (rather than personal perfection) so hard that they quit rather than admit that no one can be totally, completely perfect at any task. Without some sprinkling of perfectionism, no one would ever improve - but like anything, it can be taken to extremes.

 

[Last Fearner]

I enjoy hearing everyone's opinions and personal perspectives on this. Regardless of what level we all are, we are all humans who learn, and can share experiences. I have never given this a great deal of thought, beyond the type of comments and advice given here. I have always noted a slight propensity for me to stick to something longer than most to get it "right," or at least to a level where I feel comfortable. I am well aware that things are not going to be "perfect," and I'm never locked into that delusion so that it immobilizes me.

However, I have small personality traits that only I have noticed (not even my wife knew until I told her recently). If something is sitting on a table not lined up. or symmetrical, I might straighten it. It's not an anxiety issue for me, but it catches my eye, and I usually will feel better if it is adjusted (weird, huh?).

When I was a security guard, many years ago, I used to watch this guy come to work every morning. He would park his car in the lot, get out, lock the doors, close the driver's door, step back, and survey his car. Then, he would step forward, and check that the door was locked by pulling the handle. He would step back again, look the car over, then step up and check the door again. He would walk around the car, and check the other doors, then come back and check the driver's door again. He would walk half way to the building where he worked, turn around, go back and check the door again. This would go on for about five minutes. Same routine every morning.

Now, I'm not at that point of obsessive behavior, but I believe there are different levels of this kind of thing. After I posted this thread, I checked a few things on the net, and began to learn something. For those of you who might be inflicted with OCPD (Obesessive-Compulsive Personality Disorders), check out this site:
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/obsessive_compulsive_disorder_ocd.htm

There is a difference between the more severe OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder) and the lesser OCPD, but "perfectionism" is one of the traits. I don't have all of the other traits, but some things ring true.

I liked what you said, Gemini, about the "checkpoints" and that the students will get it eventually no matter what. I find that is true about raising my children as well (potty training, home schooling, etc). I appreciate each of you who shared your personal experience with perfectionism to some degree (I wonder if perfectionists are attracted to the Martial Art for some reason or benefit).

I liked what Laurie said, and Matt aggreed, because I too was always tough on myself, but understanding about my student's progress. When I was a teenager, my instructor used to compliment me on my patience, and how well I worked with the children. He said he didn't know how I did it. It came natural for me at that age. However, in my older age, I find that I am less tolerant of children that don't grasp concepts quickly (especially my own kids). Thus, I am always having to check my reaction to their mistakes so that I encourage, rather than berate them. Even a glance of disappointment can be devastating to a child.

Anyhow, thanks for the comments, and keep them coming!
CM Eisenhart
(now I will preview my post two or three times, and check the dictionary for spelling errors - please don't start pointing out the ones I miss - I might have a relapse - lol) :erg:

 

[bluemtn]

During forms, I get irritated at myself when I mess up (doesn't help during testing)- it doesn't matter how small of a mistake it is. In some ways, it's helpful- like in practice, others it's a hinderance- like testing. I think perfection should be more on a personal level by setting your own goals as opposed to comparing your goals/ accomplishments to someone else.