Pain compliance techniques - yay or nay?

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Hanzou

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i think its easy, too too easy to just throw racial origin in, in my exsperiance the uk police generally treat poor people badly and not those who may be in a financial postion to fight back.

i was once stopped breathlized and questioned extensivly for wearing a base ball hat in a very nice car, clearly people driiving round in a jag that they came by honestly wouldnt wear a base ball hat, so criminal , obviously,,,,,

what we call stereotyping, the police call profiling, i made a note, that if i was ever,driving round in a stolen car or one loaded with contraband, not to wear a base ball hat

Yeah, you live in the UK, I'm talking about the states. You guys simply don't have the history that we have. In the past police departments were actively used in my country as a method to purposely control black and brown people. It's getting better thankfully, but unfortunately some people want the police to be the "thin blue line" to hold back the unwashed hordes.
 

dvcochran

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Yeah, you live in the UK, I'm talking about the states. You guys simply don't have the history that we have. In the past police departments were actively used in my country as a method to purposely control black and brown people. It's getting better thankfully, but unfortunately some people want the police to be the "thin blue line" to hold back the unwashed hordes.
The key here is "in the past". No longer true and rather exclusive when it was being done.
 

Hanzou

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Many other officers have been charged under similar circumstances. You are still playing the highlighted version of one particular incident.
If you have not already researched the whole story and Floyd's history you really need to.

Yeah see, this is what I'm talking about.

Why does his history matter in relation to the incident where he was killed? If I commit a crime (even a major crime) and I go to jail for years, am released and re-enter society, am I marked for death by the police forever? If I jay walk across the street and the cops roll up with guns drawn, does that give you the green light to execute me simply because I'm asking questions? That's absurd.

And yeah, I'm aware that there have been cops charged under similar circumstances. I also know that there are many cops who are charged and never convicted. I know there are cops who get fired and simply move and are hired elsewhere. I also know there's plenty of cops who have committed crimes and are never reported, and other cops know about it and keep their mouths shut.

So if you're a no good piece of sxxt and act like a sub-human but, just happen to be the right color and have a badge, who's hauling you in?
 
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jobo

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Yeah, you live in the UK, I'm talking about the states. You guys simply don't have the history that we have. In the past police departments were actively used in my country as a method to purposely control black and brown people. It's getting better thankfully, but unfortunately some people want the police to be the "thin blue line" to hold back the unwashed hordes.
we have a not so glorious history of doing much the same, , the purpose of the police is largely to protect the haves from the have nots, and part of that seems to include harressing the have nots,

or people who look like a have not that has a nice car or who dont look like they belong in an area, if your not white is safe to conclude its because your not white, of course if you are white, then it needs some more thought
 

Hanzou

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The key here is "in the past". No longer true and rather exclusive when it was being done.

You do know that blacks and hispanics get longer jail sentences for the same crimes that whites commit right? Also a black man with a clean record has as much chance of getting hired as a white man with a felony on his record. Finally everyone knows what would have happened if it was a horde of black people storming the US capitol instead of billy joe bob and his redneck pals.

It's not the past, it's happening now. Unfortunately our law enforcement are often used as blunt instruments to keep it going.
 
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Hanzou

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we have a not so glorious history of doing much the same, , the purpose of the police is largely to protect the haves from the have nots, and part of that seems to include harressing the have nots,

I definitely can agree with that.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Friendly reminder, please avoid political discussions here. And try to stay on the original topic, or at least in the realm of the original topic.
 

Tez3

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we have a not so glorious history of doing much the same, , the purpose of the police is largely to protect the haves from the have nots, and part of that seems to include harressing the have nots,

or people who look like a have not that has a nice car or who dont look like they belong in an area, if your not white is safe to conclude its because your not white, of course if you are white, then it needs some more thought


Oh dear, bashing the police again. I know it's hard living with the fact they turned you down for a job but hey there's always the doors :D:D:D
 

dvcochran

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You do know that blacks and hispanics get longer jail sentences for the same crimes that whites commit right? Also a black man with a clean record has as much chance of getting hired as a white man with a felony on his record. Finally everyone knows what would have happened if it was a horde of black people storming the US capitol instead of billy joe bob and his redneck pals.

It's not the past, it's happening now. Unfortunately our law enforcement are often used as blunt instruments to keep it going.
Then how do you explain the 'storm' that recently happened with BLM? And the other protests across the US? You are using skewed, biased, and bad logic.
 

dvcochran

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Why does his history matter in relation to the incident where he was killed? If I commit a crime (even a major crime) and I go to jail for years, am released and re-enter society, am I marked for death by the police forever? If I jay walk across the street and the cops roll up with guns drawn, does that give you the green light to execute me simply because I'm asking questions? That's absurd

That is so far from apples to apples that it is just silly. In the moment, when an altercation has occurred, it matters a Lot. All information does.

So if you're a no good piece of sxxt and act like a sub-human but, just happen to be the right color and have a badge, who's hauling you in?
Wow.
 

jobo

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Oh dear, bashing the police again. I know it's hard living with the fact they turned you down for a job but hey there's always the doors :D:D:D
im not exspecting a reasonable concersation with you, which makes me wonder why im replying,

the police generally do a good job, indifficult circumstances, they do however seem to make a habit of annoying varius demographics, as they have " profiled" them as being potential criminals , this may have a sucess in reducing crime, but some times at the exspence of a lot of annoyed people who are fed up of stops every other time they leave the house.

over years this leads to whole community's having a miss trust of the police and the police generaly being totaly bemused why this is so

as to protecting the haves, its fair to say if you have a quarter of a million in jewellery stolen or a solid gold toilet, the police will put far more effort in to tracking down the culprits than if they steal a poor persons tv set

coz poor peoples crimes dont matter, at all, as my local force has just been rapped for closing many thousands of crimes with no attempt at all at investigation
 

drop bear

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i cant disagree, people who wrestel for a living really ought to practice wrestling

but tgat is not how it seems to work, at least not here, the mininum fitness standard for police is extremly low, at a level where people with cardiac issues could easily pass

and they get a course in technque every couple of years or so, for half a day, so its left to indvidual officers if they wish to ve good at the part of the job that involves arresting violent people, or even if the criminal uses the clever strategy of running away,, it seem a lot dont bother

im aware that the entry standard for the Australian police is quite high, i dont know if they need to maintain it?

Not really their SD stuff. We train with a couple of cops and they are pretty unimpressed.
 

drop bear

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1. Better training (I think learning some grappling would be very helpful). I fully support more tax dollars going towards that effort.
2. Better screening of police recruits
3. Demilitarize police departments
4. Standardize body cams and put in place stiff punishments for cops who purposely turn them off.
5. Have police interact more with the communities they police (I know some do this already, but more needs to be done. People shouldn't be AFRAID of cops).
6. Hire more recruits from minority areas. I worked in an inner-city high school for years and we had military recruits constantly. Why aren't police departments actively recruiting from these areas on that level?
7. Make it less of a conflict of interest for DAs to prosecute bad and corrupt police officers
8. Support gun control legislation so that you guys don't have to worry about a gun getting shoved in your face at every traffic stop

We can start there.

Ironically as far as demilitarisation goes. It think the military is further along the path to responsible use of force.

The definitely have better CQB systems.

So Maby more militarisation.
 

drop bear

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i think its easy, too too easy to just throw racial origin in, in my exsperiance the uk police generally treat poor people badly and not those who may be in a financial postion to fight back.

i was once stopped breathlized and questioned extensivly for wearing a base ball hat in a very nice car, clearly people driiving round in a jag that they came by honestly wouldnt wear a base ball hat, so criminal , obviously,,,,,

what we call stereotyping, the police call profiling, i made a note, that if i was ever,driving round in a stolen car or one loaded with contraband, not to wear a base ball hat

If it was at that weird angle or not properly on your head i am going to side with the cops.

It just looks stupid.

20210114_054727.jpg
 

jobo

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If it was at that weird angle or not properly on your head i am going to side with the cops.

It just looks stupid.

View attachment 23559
no mate, it was worn correctly,

a friend of mine, eho had far to much time pn his hands used to listen to the police wave band

and noted, that the vast majority of call were looking for some one wearing a bb cap, he sugested that if they just arrested everyone with a bb cap they could cut crime dramatically, seems the police came to much the same conclusion
 

Buka

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Sorry, my computer doesn't seem to be working well with MT lately. So if my reply made it into this thread it is hiding itself from me. :(

Showing up just fine and dandy on my screen, bro.
 

Hanzou

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Then how do you explain the 'storm' that recently happened with BLM? And the other protests across the US? You are using skewed, biased, and bad logic.

You abuse something long enough, it’s going to eventually fight back with no regard for their personal being, because they have nothing left to lose.

Lucky for us it was only those BLM protests. Frankly, we deserve worse for the crap we’ve done, and continue to do.
 

Hanzou

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Ironically as far as demilitarisation goes. It think the military is further along the path to responsible use of force.

The definitely have better CQB systems.

So Maby more militarisation.

Not really. What ends up happening is that you still get the lackluster training, but now with military grade hardware. It’s like taking a drunk driver out of a car and putting them at the controls of a tank. You simply get worse results.
 
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