Offtopic posts from "Don't Be Afraid"

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shesulsa

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As an observer, with no dog in this fight, I'd like to say that it really appears to me that Richard has gone out of his way to be careful and polite in this discussion.

The same cannot be said of many of the counter posters. Really, the nastiness coming from MY SIDE (the Bujinkan side) is really embarassing. Upping the ante, begging the question, strawman tactics. It's sickening to read.

And I'm just calling it as I see it. I have had plenty of rows online with Richard over the years, and I am perfectly willing to call a spade a spade if I see it. But this aint it, folks.

Rick's main point isn't even controversial: if you want to know what you're capable of doing under pressure, you have to actually put yourself under some kinds of pressure to find out. Your instructor's assessments, your faith, your lineage, your assumptions... NONE of those things can replace actual experience in spontaneous application of what you know in various controlled environments. None of them are perfect, but to throw out 'sparring' or 'alive' training because it isn't perfect is to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

And seriously folks, I don't even do a whole lot of 'alive' type training but I'm not going to deny it's appeal or its strengths. That's just silly.

I realize that I've opened myself up to all manner of nasty insinuations and criticisms which are pretty much the standard for these 'debates', so I shan't be responding. I just hope that my (relatively) objective viewpoint gets through to some of the heads here.

Carry on, then!:)
I must digress ... we read a lot of this kind of thing over and over and over again.

Alive training - testing your limits, rolling with people outside your training hall ... of course it's important! It just appears that it's not accepted that it's actually done unless there is videotape of it, or a challenge through a mud-slinging board, or notarized statements to that effect or eye-witnessed. And it gets old, really, to go into an art-specific forum for discussion on the art itself to find the same argument time and again and the accusation that people who don't conform to the above standards are "afraid."

It seems to me that this is not the subforum for this discussion/debate, but as an involved party, I cannot moderate nor administrate this discussion.

Personally I tire of the idea that there are no individual identities if you are part of a group. It's a sweeping statement that is short-sighted, assuming and generally false. It's like I can't be "me" if I say I'm a woman. I don't belong to a group, I'm not a "wo-MAN" I'm ME. I think for myself! Well ... heh heh heh ... guess what? I'm a woman AND I'm me. And fortunately, my thinking parts are higher on my body than the organs which determine my gender. If I'm part of a family, does that mean I lose my identity? No. Do I think I *am* the entity that I am a part of? No. Anyone who does has a serious identity problem. There may be sheeple who follow people blindly ... but to think we all do that and that we're afraid just because someone thinks we do because of the nature of our discussion is just short-sighted and assuming falsehoods.

I refuse to be intimidated by someone else's idea that I fit their cookie-cutter idea of what a TMAist is supposed to be just because I train in a TMA and don't compete. I will not be pushed into doing something I don't care to do because it's someone else's measure of reality. I am more mature than that ... I think for myself, thank you very much.

:asian:
 

makoto-dojo

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I

I refuse to be intimidated by someone else's idea that I fit their cookie-cutter idea of what a TMAist is supposed to be just because I train in a TMA and don't compete. I will not be pushed into doing something I don't care to do because it's someone else's measure of reality. I am more mature than that ... I think for myself, thank you very much.

:asian:


Where in this WHOLE thread did I say any of this? And who is talking about competing?

It sounds to me that you have some issues with some things, you see some words that you lump into trigger categories for yourself and get all ruffled and flustered.

Try READING what was actually said and leave your own insecurities out of this.


It ssems to me that SOME people who practice ninpo don't want to discuss randori of any sort, so they do not want it in a Ninpo forum... Sad!

I am not talking of MMA, competition or any other sort of thing, I am talking about something that is a part of all traditional arts, EVEN Ninpo.

This is silly!
 

shesulsa

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Where in this WHOLE thread did I say any of this? And who is talking about competing?
Where in this whole thread did I say that you said any of this?

It sounds to me that you have some issues with some things, you see some words that you lump into trigger categories for yourself and get all ruffled and flustered.
:lfao: Yeah ... ruffled and flustered ... that's me. It seems to me that if I were ruffled and flustered, I'd be responding to every single post and defending my position against every single other person in the thread who disagreed with me ... but I'm not doing that. I simply explained my opinion on the opinions of yours and others ... politely and respectfully.[/quote]

Try READING what was actually said and leave your own insecurities out of this.
Nice try. Still not ruffled. :ultracool


It ssems to me that SOME people who practice ninpo don't want to discuss randori of any sort, so they do not want it in a Ninpo forum... Sad!
But your OP wasn't about Randori in Ninpo ... it was about your assumption that not many others mix it up and that others don't think for themselves and that others are afraid of not training the way you do.

I am not talking of MMA, competition or any other sort of thing, I am talking about something that is a part of all traditional arts, EVEN Ninpo.
Then the topic would be more suited in the General Martial Arts subforum ... or if you wish to debate and attack, perhaps The Great Debate subforum.
 

Rook

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Hi,

I never understood why many people automatically lump randori with sport and MMA (Not saying you are btw, I think you made a good post) Randori/sparring is a part of most TRADITIONAL martial arts I can think of. lets see, here is a list of traditional arts that do randori or spar:

  1. Japanese Jujutsu of various Ryu
  2. Some kenjutsu
  3. Aikido
  4. All kung fu styles (maybe not all teachers but all styles)
  5. Karate
  6. Tae Kwon Do, Hap Ki Do
  7. Hwa Rang Do
  8. Tae Kyon
  9. All western martial arts
You can add Muay Thai, Muay Boran, virtually all FMA, Indian arts and arabic martial arts etc. You might note that not all Aikido, karate and TKD dojos/dojangs spar/do randori.

Now make a list of all "styles" that don't do randori?

Feel free...

Randori does NOT = Sports and MMA.

I think it would be silly to purge the Ninpo section of any randori talk just because Mr. Hatsumi doesn't do it (anymore...) Why put it in the MMA section when it IS traditional in ninpo (reference Takamatsu Sensei, Kimura Sensei etc. Even Mr. Hatsumi has etc..)

But its not my forum so...

It will be interesting to see how it proceeds...

I think it might be necessary to put threads that deal with the issues of conflict between MMA and TMA in the MMA section simply because they aren't often welcome in the other sections. I think, too, that your post shows a significant influence from MMA principles, and that might make it as appropriate there as here.
 

Seattletcj

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Shesulsa,

Your post was kind of scattered and confusing, honestly.

Then the topic would be more suited in the General Martial Arts subforum ... or if you wish to debate and attack, perhaps The Great Debate subforum.

Ninjutsu and sparring/alive practice is not relevant to anyone in the MMA section. The original poster is a member of an " X-kan" , and his intended audience was of the X-Kans. Moving it achieves what?

hmmmm....
 

shesulsa

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Ninjutsu and sparring/alive practice is not relevant to anyone in the MMA section.
I did not recommend it be moved to the MMA section. Please read the text from my post which you quoted, thanks.

The original poster is a member of an " X-kan" , and his intended audience was of the X-Kans. Moving it achieves what?

But the post was not exclusive to the X-Kans and the OPer even stated:

If the topic is not art-specific but covers a wide variety of art and art applications, it is more appropriate to place it in the General Arts subforum, or, if the desire is to debate and attack, The Great Debate subforum.
 

makoto-dojo

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But the post was not exclusive to the X-Kans and the OPer even stated:


If the topic is not art-specific but covers a wide variety of art and art applications, it is more appropriate to place it in the General Arts subforum, or, if the desire is to debate and attack, The Great Debate subforum.

Unreal...

It is like the twilight zone! people interpreting as they see fit, not reading. The list goes on.

Put the topic where ever you wish folks. I think it is pretty clear now what the "Ninjutsu" forum is for.


Enjoy everybody LOL!

Wow...
 

Bob Hubbard

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Richard,
If the topic is intended for a general audience, it should be in the general forum. If it was intended for the X-kans, then it belongs here. Simple Logic.
So, as the original poster, which is it intended for?
 

makoto-dojo

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Richard,
If the topic is intended for a general audience, it should be in the general forum. If it was intended for the X-kans, then it belongs here. Simple Logic.
So, as the original poster, which is it intended for?


Hello,

thank you.

It was intended for the x-kans. While it can be argued that the subject matter is universal the audience was specific.

Regards,
 

Bob Hubbard

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Fair enough.

I am locking this thread temporarily, and we will go through it and split off the off topic posts and trim the heat as possible to return it to topic.

Give me a day to process things and we will reopen it sometime tomorrow evening at the latest.
 
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