A notebook is an absolute must. I've kept mine from day 1 and has many numerous good tips and such in it.
Notebooks
- Thread starter Shodan
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Doc
Senior Master
If you feel you can get all you need by "looking" then you have chosen the level you wish to study, and that is OK. But you may not be able to compare yourself to those who take a more detailed educational approach. There are things that cannot be conveyed by looking even in "motion."
pete
Master Black Belt
i personally find there are things that cannot be conveyed by looking... or reading! for instance, one is limited by the level of understanding when the notes are written, and further limited by one's command of the english language, and again limited by the level of understanding when reading it back.
same can be true for video taping, except any confusion of "what was i thinking about when i wrote this" is eliminated. however, other problems such as camera angles can distort the message as well. Some of us are just not that good with the written word, and some of us are not that good with a camera!
my original suggestion on notebooks, IMHO, is a "less is more" approach; to keep minimal notes, rather than a step by step narrative. video taping yourself to supplement the notes and make adjustments... and if you have professional tapes, compare yourself on film vs the instructor.
I like to use an analogy to a jazz musician and his "fake book". You wouldn't want to listen to him play it straight, yet the fake book allows him to quickly reference a song and go on to play it from the heart.
doc, i'd truly appreciate your opinion on this approach, and whether you fell i may be missing something now that may hinder my progress later.
I mean none of these methods to suggest the replacement of hands on training, or to advocate the use of tapes and books to replace live-learning from a good instructor.
same can be true for video taping, except any confusion of "what was i thinking about when i wrote this" is eliminated. however, other problems such as camera angles can distort the message as well. Some of us are just not that good with the written word, and some of us are not that good with a camera!
my original suggestion on notebooks, IMHO, is a "less is more" approach; to keep minimal notes, rather than a step by step narrative. video taping yourself to supplement the notes and make adjustments... and if you have professional tapes, compare yourself on film vs the instructor.
I like to use an analogy to a jazz musician and his "fake book". You wouldn't want to listen to him play it straight, yet the fake book allows him to quickly reference a song and go on to play it from the heart.
doc, i'd truly appreciate your opinion on this approach, and whether you fell i may be missing something now that may hinder my progress later.
I mean none of these methods to suggest the replacement of hands on training, or to advocate the use of tapes and books to replace live-learning from a good instructor.
M
MisterMike
Guest
There's observing and there's feeling. These should be first in your training. Then go write down what you experienced.
If you have to write down anything more than principles, like, Step 1. ..... Step 2. ...... then maybe it is just a memorization tool. You'll either learn it by practice and then be able to discard those Step by Step notes, or you'll never learn it.
Other than aiding in your initial learning, a notebook is more of a security blanket.
Perhaps the better term would be a journal. In this method or writing, you could record what you did that day, but it shouldn't be a requirement to go back and flip thru the pages as you cram for your next test.
If you have to write down anything more than principles, like, Step 1. ..... Step 2. ...... then maybe it is just a memorization tool. You'll either learn it by practice and then be able to discard those Step by Step notes, or you'll never learn it.
Other than aiding in your initial learning, a notebook is more of a security blanket.
Perhaps the better term would be a journal. In this method or writing, you could record what you did that day, but it shouldn't be a requirement to go back and flip thru the pages as you cram for your next test.
K
kenpo12
Guest
Doc,
I do understand your point, but I actually learn the most from doing, the looking is merely for reference. There are ton of things that can't be learned by reading, taking notes or any other way but doing it, and feeling it. As far as comparing to those who take a more detailed educational approach, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
I do understand your point, but I actually learn the most from doing, the looking is merely for reference. There are ton of things that can't be learned by reading, taking notes or any other way but doing it, and feeling it. As far as comparing to those who take a more detailed educational approach, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Personally, I'd take some of the visual learner stuff with a rock of salt. And I write this as someone who has a lot of trouble learning because I can't understand what I see.
I learned a lot from keeping a notebook, which I need to go back to. It helped with techs, for example, because I had to translate what I'd been taught into my own terms.
Now, I write the stuff that happens, the stuff I'm shown, the stuff I suddelnly figure out--not as often as I should. But I believe in it.
I learned a lot from keeping a notebook, which I need to go back to. It helped with techs, for example, because I had to translate what I'd been taught into my own terms.
Now, I write the stuff that happens, the stuff I'm shown, the stuff I suddelnly figure out--not as often as I should. But I believe in it.
K
Kenpomachine
Guest
First, I think that taking notes is something personal. Some may feel compelled to write them, some may not. My instructor advocates them mainly after sparring, like what I have done wrong, how is my partner reacting, etc.
Second, video is more of a visual aid and reference. My instructor always says that this is the best way to see (seing is believing) how you have progressed in a certain period of time, and recommends them specially when people are feeling negative towards their progression in kenpo.
Third, I maintain a public journal about my kenpo journey. I write it when I feel like it, and it has a little bit of what we've been doing at class, how I was feeling or a report of a certain event. I enjoy writing it, but it's more for other people to read. I don't use to reread it.
I also write some material out after seminars. But that is so I don't have to actively train them regularly to remember them. It's like I'm cheating to myself. Forms, sets and techniques are already available in many places for reference (many thanks again for your site, Michael). If I am to compare them to college notes, they're still a complement of books already written by someone else and a way to forget what you're not inmediately using (some people forgot completely and burn them notes after the tests...).
Besides, written history is the best way for winners to manipulate it to suit their interests and these notes are the same. So I think that relaying only on written notes it's a dangerous two edged weapon: it can help remember things, and it also makes it easier to forget what you were supposed to convey to memory and training once you've written the material down. And if you loose the notes, then, there's nothing there to remind you of what you've forgotten
So yes for notes, but not as a way to avoid training regularly the material, all the material you've learned.
Second, video is more of a visual aid and reference. My instructor always says that this is the best way to see (seing is believing) how you have progressed in a certain period of time, and recommends them specially when people are feeling negative towards their progression in kenpo.
Third, I maintain a public journal about my kenpo journey. I write it when I feel like it, and it has a little bit of what we've been doing at class, how I was feeling or a report of a certain event. I enjoy writing it, but it's more for other people to read. I don't use to reread it.
I also write some material out after seminars. But that is so I don't have to actively train them regularly to remember them. It's like I'm cheating to myself. Forms, sets and techniques are already available in many places for reference (many thanks again for your site, Michael). If I am to compare them to college notes, they're still a complement of books already written by someone else and a way to forget what you're not inmediately using (some people forgot completely and burn them notes after the tests...).
Besides, written history is the best way for winners to manipulate it to suit their interests and these notes are the same. So I think that relaying only on written notes it's a dangerous two edged weapon: it can help remember things, and it also makes it easier to forget what you were supposed to convey to memory and training once you've written the material down. And if you loose the notes, then, there's nothing there to remind you of what you've forgotten
So yes for notes, but not as a way to avoid training regularly the material, all the material you've learned.
K
Kenpomachine
Guest
Doc, it does depend on the person and their memory. I had a college mate who only had two pages of notes for a whole mathematics semester, while I had 200. He passed the first time while I failed that same exam.
Again, I have to disagree with you here, and I have two college degrees. As I stated in another post, you commit to paper what you don't want to, or can't at that moment, commit to memory. It doesn't say anything about the complexity of the material being learnt, just about your focus and intention and memory when you where studying it.
Probably ideas to be developed further, or a list of to do things....
:lol: That was me in public school
I can see your point and agree with it, but again, there's other side to this, and it's the talented ones who can remember without notes or homework, just by paying proper atention in class to what the teacher is trying to teach.And that won't save you from people burning notebooks after tests
Doc
Senior Master
Well sir I really think we agree. All forms of information retrieval are limited, especially in a "hands on" teaching environment required for self defense. But there are aspects absolutely required that go beyond hands on and enter the intellectual.
I think for many your anology is on the money because of the "artistic" approach of most. That is, flexibility of interpretation and free expression can be limited and confined by a "by the numbers" approach.
But long before you can express yourself extemporaneously, the rudiments must be learned in a rote manner to allow inculcation of the requisite intellectual and physical information. No one learned the "abc's" without them being written down and understanding the letters relationship to each other and rules of spelling, sentence structure, and speech.
In my world you learn the strict unwavering "abc's", then you learn to "print," usually by copying specific sentences designed to extend your lessons into structure. Then we begin to "write" with cursive or script, expressing ourselves better and better as our understanding and vocabulary grows. Ultimately we end up at "shorthand" when it suits our needs." But even shorthand has strict rules of applications.
The difference between "martial science" and the "martial arts," is interpretation of the free expression of an art comes much sooner in one's developent. "Martial science" requires a much larger "abc" structure, and subsequently a significantly larger base of information. Much more intricate, and therefore one finds themselves in the rudimentary stage much longer. That doesn't mean you can't be effective, but the understanding and mechanisms takes longer to reach much higher levels than an art.
Quick self defense is the goal of many, then there is a "journey" of free expression and exploration. That was/is the goal of Parker's commercial vehicle. But in reality its base is not significant enough to foster long term skills for most beyond the "artistic" expression devoid of substantial scientific reality. The efficacy of one methodology over another is only predicated on the goals of the student and their own long term desires of effectiveness and efficiency.
Think about it. Old men in China are not exploring "motion" but are concentrating on much more sophisticated knowledge and its applications. As a simple example, when I first began informing some of the relevancy of "nerve" strikes and acupucture meridian energy maniplulation, (a very small part of the overall information) most suggested that was not a part of Kenpo as they understood it. They are right, but that doesn't mean American Kenpo is devoid of the information, only the instruction in their lineage.
The knowledge is rare and not widely disseminated, but it exists and can definitely alter perceptions of "basics" and their expression, as well as the volume of ones "abc's" sir. Good or bad is relative. What I may call bad, may be great for someone else. Parker is a genius you know.
My last post was supporting yours in a weird humorous kind of way.
I personally am enjoying finding and using pressure points, nerve strikes, etc. as part of my techniques. I think that Mr. Parker, and his students, developed effective techniques that often hit them, but was not reliant on the point. I am not sure if I am making sense here. An example would be executing Five Swords and using the handsword to the "neck" to actually pinpoint the nerve at the base of the occipital, and to change the angle of incidence slightly so that the strike is more downward AND inward. This "change" assumes that the opponent is bent over at the waist, so that the "inward component of the handsword actually is on a path of motion from his occipital to the front of the forehead.
So that rather than smashing the cervical vertebra (which certainly works), we are striking the same point we do when executing the inward overhead looping back-knuckle (or forearm) that we use in Obscure Claws. TA-DING ... it don't take much and they are out.
Convoluted way for me to try to put something so easy into words. What I am saying that it does not matter in the moment, where you strike of the two examples for Five Swords, they have a similar effect. One is just a bit less sophisticated than the nerve strike ... both drop you, and all my students have to learn the gross motion before I will show them the points that refine the strike and require much less effort for a maximum effect.
Whew!
-Michael
I personally am enjoying finding and using pressure points, nerve strikes, etc. as part of my techniques. I think that Mr. Parker, and his students, developed effective techniques that often hit them, but was not reliant on the point. I am not sure if I am making sense here. An example would be executing Five Swords and using the handsword to the "neck" to actually pinpoint the nerve at the base of the occipital, and to change the angle of incidence slightly so that the strike is more downward AND inward. This "change" assumes that the opponent is bent over at the waist, so that the "inward component of the handsword actually is on a path of motion from his occipital to the front of the forehead.
So that rather than smashing the cervical vertebra (which certainly works), we are striking the same point we do when executing the inward overhead looping back-knuckle (or forearm) that we use in Obscure Claws. TA-DING ... it don't take much and they are out.
Convoluted way for me to try to put something so easy into words. What I am saying that it does not matter in the moment, where you strike of the two examples for Five Swords, they have a similar effect. One is just a bit less sophisticated than the nerve strike ... both drop you, and all my students have to learn the gross motion before I will show them the points that refine the strike and require much less effort for a maximum effect.
Whew!
-Michael
Doc
Senior Master
I hear you loud and clear. You know we're both preaching to each others chior.:asian:
K
Kenpomachine
Guest
I wish there were more instructors out there spreading this information. Those of us who can't rely on blunt force trauma need to work more over this material.
But most of this information can only be conveyed by a qualified instructor, and those are hard to find...
Doc
Senior Master
Yes sir you are correct, but most would be surprised to know just how small a part that information really is compared to the volume of information that should be taught.
It's "Yes Ma'am", not "Yes Sir" when talking to KenpoMachine. And she has a great Kenpo web site originating in Spain(?), if memory serves.
Oss,:asian:
-Michael
Oss,:asian:
-Michael
Doc
Senior Master
Whoa - My bad! No offense intended.
K
Kenpomachine
Guest
No offense taken, sir
It's not that many times that I sign with my name here. And thanks Michael for the compliments, now I've blushed :lol:
Lucía
K
Kenpomachine
Guest
I know we are being taught a shortened program and the information in there to explore is already huge.
With the complete syllabus I would have no time to go over it as many times as needed to grasp the information fully in the little time I have.
But after basics, you need this information to make most of the sd techniques work properly. Though I tend to unify pressure points with joint/control manipulations as well, due to my lack of in depth knowledge in this area.
If I don't recall bad, some pressure points are addressed as targets in the finger set, isn't it so?
Doc
Senior Master
I agree, but "exploration" is not possible without a competent instructor, who shouldn't be teaching a "shortened" program if possible.
I think you should be shown how to make the self defense techniques work in the beginning. Also there is no "after basics." Basics continue perpetually as understanding grows. Parker always said, "There is no such thing as basics, only a basic understanding of the information."
A couple are addressed because they are in specific locations, but the primary theme of Finger Set as I was taught is "body alignment principles." I know in the commercial model it addresses "soft tissue assaults" which we basically don't use.
K
Kenpomachine
Guest
The "shortened" program is the program learnt by Petit and Luis González, with techniques added later when people went back to the States to work with Parker. Or now, with one of my instructors learning the whole program from Larry Tatum.
I should have explained it better.
Point taken...
So then, you go back to the material to have a better understanding of the information, no? And to get a hold of what you've overlooked the first time...
I wish I can see what you're refering to... physically. I think I wouldn't understand the differences unless I have a knowledge of your Finger Set.
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