No style

[skribs]

If a WC guy is good in protecting his center from inside out, do you think he is not interested in protecting his center from outside in?

You're already showing a style by your focus on "center".

If I can write a program in C, I would like to know what will be the PRO and CON if I can write it in C++.

I can count to 10 in English, Korean, Japanese, Spanish, American Sign Language, German, and Klingon. I am only fluent in English. Someone who can speak both English and Spanish fluently has a lot more practical language skills than I do, even though I can count in 7 languages.

What's worse, this is starting to sound like the type of person who goes to martial arts schools for 4 months and learns a bit here and a bit there, and then creates his own martial art, with no real mastery of anything. Or the guy who reads a bunch of science articles on the Internet and talks to anyone as if he's got a PHD in the subject.

There's something to be said for breadth of knowledge, but if that breadth is without depth, then it's useless.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What's worse, this is starting to sound like the type of person who goes to martial arts schools for 4 months and learns a bit here and a bit there, and then creates his own martial art, with no real mastery of anything.

First you develop a set of "tools" in your toolbox (this may take 6 years). You then develop a set of "strategies" (this may take your life time) such as:

- defense and counter strategies.
- entering strategies.
- finish strategies.
- ...

What else do you need from your MA training? If we look at MA as tools and strategies, we don't have to think about "style" any more.

For example:

- You throw a groin kick. Your opponent drops his arm to block it.
- You punch to his face. Your opponent raises his arm to block it.
- You pull your opponent's blocking arm and knock him down with the other hand.

Which MA style are you using?

You have just used your

1. tool:

- front kick,
- jab,
- grab and pull.
- cross.

2. strategy:

- Kick low, punch high.
- Use kick to close the distance.
- A jab is a punch followed by a pull.
- Pull your opponent into your punch.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You're already showing a style by your focus on "center".

Center is the space in front of your body. I don't think it has anything to do with "style".

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If your goal is to master an art, then it serves no purpose to mix,

Yu still don't want your style to put restriction on you. We have often heard:

- My style doesn't do this.
- This is against my style principle.
- This will make my style un-pure.
- ...

Sometime one becomes the slave of his MA style. That's not good.

A: There is a $100 bill on the ground. Why don't you pick it up?
B: My Taiji teacher told me that I should keep my head up. I should not bend forward. Bending forward is bad. Very bad.

 

[Buka]

If nothing has importance, that's your style.

 

[skribs]

Center is the space in front of your body. I don't think it has anything to do with "style".

If you make it that ambiguous, you are correct. But if you make it that ambiguous, what's the point?

 

[skribs]

Yu still don't want your style to put restriction on you. We have often heard:

- My style doesn't do this.
- This is against my style principle.
- This will make my style un-pure.
- ...

Sometime one becomes the slave of his MA style. That's not good.

A: There is a $100 bill on the ground. Why don't you pick it up?
B: My Taiji teacher told me that I should keep my head up. I should not bend forward. Bending forward is bad. Very bad.

That's not a problem of style, but how it's applied.

This is a video I come back to a lot, because it is relevant in discussions like this. The first "rule" of boxing he goes over is to never cross your feet. Then he explains why the rule exists, why it's important for beginners, and then how and why he breaks the rule. You don't want to get tripped up, and the rule to never cross your feet makes it work. This is a style choice, as many martial arts will have you step instead of slide, and many of those have crossing stances.

But, he shows times in which he will use those types of steps, and situations in which they apply.

This is an example of a style with rules, but a more advanced fighter breaking those rules when they know how. It doesn't mean you don't have a style, though.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yu still don't want your style to put restriction on you. We have often heard:

- My style doesn't do this.
- This is against my style principle.
- This will make my style un-pure.
- ...

Sometime one becomes the slave of his MA style. That's not good.

A: There is a $100 bill on the ground. Why don't you pick it up?
B: My Taiji teacher told me that I should keep my head up. I should not bend forward. Bending forward is bad. Very bad.

I agree with the basic idea here, John. But I think a good bit of this is folks (including some instructors) confusing the learning framework for what's allowed. There are movements I discourage in beginner martial artists who train with me, that I would encourage in someone with certain kinds of experience. Beginners use those movements badly, and it's better for them to focus on learning the primary principles I can teach them. More advanced students can explore more widely.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you make it that ambiguous, you are correct. But if you make it that ambiguous, what's the point?

It's up to whether you want to deal with circular punch, or you want to deal with straight punch.

- You close your front door and force your opponent to punch through your side doors. Since your arms are in the way of your opponent's straight punch path, most likely your opponent will use circular punch to punch around your arms.

- You close your side doors and force your opponent punch through your front door. Since your arms are in the way of your opponent's circular punch path, most likely your opponent will use straight punch and punch between your arms.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When I was young, my cousin taught me how to counter a front choke. I hold both hand into a big fist. I then use it as a wedge and punch straight up between my opponent's choking arms. After I have broken the choking arms, I then grab my opponent's head, pull his head down and smash my knee into his face.

Which MA style does this technique come from? My cousin learned this from military.

 

[DanT]

If a WC guy is good in protecting his center from inside out, do you think he is not interested in protecting his center from outside in?

If I can write a program in C, I would like to know what will be the PRO and CON if I can write it in C++.

Although I understand your point, my emphasis is on Mastery of a particular art. Similar to learning the piano: yes if I only practice the piano, I won't be good at the guitar. But I'll be damn good at the piano.

I'm not necessarily sure what you mean by not protecting the centre outside in, the way I learned allows me to do both, and I train both.

 

[Gweilo]

To tell a beginner, who has no concept of footwork, a rudimentary understanding of striking, and no training in the finer details of grappling to just go and figure it out? Why bother having instructors at that point?

I never stated not to teach, I stated training a certain style limits your movement to that style, move in a more natural way, if for example, you get into a situation where self defense is iminant, putting yourself in a stance from the style you train, IMO, limits your choice of defense, standing in a fighting stance restricts movement and can give your opponent an idea of what you are about to attempt.

 

[skribs]

I never stated not to teach, I stated training a certain style limits your movement to that style, move in a more natural way, if for example, you get into a situation where self defense is iminant, putting yourself in a stance from the style you train, IMO, limits your choice of defense, standing in a fighting stance restricts movement and can give your opponent an idea of what you are about to attempt.

Every sentence fragment in this is wrong.

1. How do people learn if they're not taught?
2. How do people learn without a style? You can't learn everything at once. You have to pick something to start with.
3. Beginners should limit their movement to the style, because if they don't follow the rules of the style, they're more likely to hurt themselves. Once you understand the basics, you are ready to move on to other things.
4. If you get into a situation where self-defense is imminent, you should be more worried about avoidance and de-escalation than fighting
5. No stance is more limiting on choice of defense
6. A good fighting stance doesn't restrict your movement
7. Your style may not have you enter a fighting stance until you are attacked. If a fight is imminent and you are amped up to fight, your attacker will know what you are going to do anyway

To tell a beginner not to use a stance, and just move how they feel like, is probably among the worst pieces of advice I think I've ever seen on this forum.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

putting yourself in a stance from the style you train, IMO, limits your choice of defense, standing in a fighting stance restricts movement and can give your opponent an idea of what you are about to attempt.

In general, your stance can give you 2 options:

If you put more weight in your

- back leg, you are safe from foot sweep. You are ready to kick out your front leg. You are not ready to punch.

- front leg, you are risky from foot sweep. You are ready to kick out your back leg. You are also ready to punch.

Some people may not agree with me that the kick is the best counter for punch. Not only the leg is longer than the arm, if you don't allow your opponent to put more weight on his front leg, he can't punch you. When you detect that your opponent intends to put more weight on his leading leg, you just sweep that leading leg and you can interrupt his punch. ​

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I thin

When I was young, my cousin taught me how to counter a front choke. I hold both hand into a big fist. I then use it as a wedge and punch straight up between my opponent's choking arms. After I have broken the choking arms, I then grab my opponent's head, pull his head down and smash my knee into his face.

Which MA style does this technique come from? My cousin learned this from military.

A lot of styles have that. I feel like you’re trying to make a point, but I’m missing it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I never stated not to teach, I stated training a certain style limits your movement to that style, move in a more natural way, if for example, you get into a situation where self defense is iminant, putting yourself in a stance from the style you train, IMO, limits your choice of defense, standing in a fighting stance restricts movement and can give your opponent an idea of what you are about to attempt.

I disagree. If someone is trained in boxing that doesn’t limit their options. Rather, it men’s they have a specific area they are more adept at. Working within that area during a defensive situation is playing to strength, not giving up the option to do other things.

 

[pdg]

In general, your stance can give you 2 options:

If you put more weight in your

- back leg, you are safe from foot sweep. You are ready to kick out your front leg. You are not ready to punch.

- front leg, you are risky from foot sweep. You are ready to kick out your back leg. You are also ready to punch.

Some people may not agree with me that the kick is the best counter for punch. Not only the leg is longer than the arm, if you don't allow your opponent to put more weight on his front leg, he can't punch you. When you detect that your opponent intends to put more weight on his leading leg, you just sweep that leading leg and you can interrupt his punch. ​

That's very style dependent imo.

You don't have to have your front leg loaded to punch, and you don't actually need a constant leading leg either.

 

[pdg]

When I was young, my cousin taught me how to counter a front choke. I hold both hand into a big fist. I then use it as a wedge and punch straight up between my opponent's choking arms. After I have broken the choking arms, I then grab my opponent's head, pull his head down and smash my knee into his face.

Which MA style does this technique come from? My cousin learned this from military.

Where it comes from - lost in the mists of time

With the exclusion of the "big fist", it's 'part' of tk-d.

Wedging block (hands held together but not interlinked), head/neck/shoulder grab, pull for upward knee to face/solar plexus/groin.

That combination appears in a couple of patterns and also set sparring.

 

[dvcochran]

You can find a piece of paper and write down all the

1. punch - jab, cross, hook, uppercut, back fist, hammer fist, side punch, ...,
2. kick - front kick, side kick, roundhouse kick, back kick, hook kick, spin hook kick, inside crescent kick, outside crescent kick, tornado kick, jump front kick, ...,
3. footwork,
4. block,
5. lock,
6. throw,
7. ground game,
8. ...

After that, the term "style" will have no meaning to you. Your thought?

The "style" is inferred for each item you list. 1-8 are performed differently for nearly every style. Hence the point of calling them a "style".
Clearly @JowGaWolf and I have style differences which leads to different ideology, and differences in your never ending list. I think that is a very, very good thing. It is what makes the Martial Art'S not Martial Art.

 

[jobo]

Every sentence fragment in this is wrong.

1. How do people learn if they're not taught?
2. How do people learn without a style? You can't learn everything at once. You have to pick something to start with.
3. Beginners should limit their movement to the style, because if they don't follow the rules of the style, they're more likely to hurt themselves. Once you understand the basics, you are ready to move on to other things.
4. If you get into a situation where self-defense is imminent, you should be more worried about avoidance and de-escalation than fighting
5. No stance is more limiting on choice of defense
6. A good fighting stance doesn't restrict your movement
7. Your style may not have you enter a fighting stance until you are attacked. If a fight is imminent and you are amped up to fight, your attacker will know what you are going to do anyway

To tell a beginner not to use a stance, and just move how they feel like, is probably among the worst pieces of advice I think I've ever seen on this forum.

hmm

1) lots of people who have never had a lession are quite adapt at fighting
2) see above

3) it rather depends on which style they are learning, if we are talking about actual fighting there opponent is far more likely to injure them than them injuring themselves
4) if an attack is imminent you have passed the opportunity to de_escerlate

5 &6 )ots of tma stances are very restrictive, as then empersise stability rather than an ability to move fast in 360 degrees. what you dont want to be in is a position were you planted and flat fooyms with you feet a a couple of feet apart. being in something resembling a boxers foot position , is much better

7)your main advantage when being attacked is catching your attacker by surprise, they really are not expecting a vicious assault from you or they most likely wouldn't be attacking in the first place, giving no warning of your state of mind until they are in range is a major advantage. going into a exaggerate stance only serves to warning them to be careful