Ninja Mask???

[kwaichang]

Hey, and don't forget, we have "Ninja Warrior" on G-4 now. The Japanese finally yeilded to commercialization of a myth.

 

[allenjp]

Those conclusions are pretty much what I would refer to as misconceptions.

I'm sorry, perhaps I just grew up in a cave somewhere, but when someone constantly puts a caveat into their sentences like MAY HAVE BEEN, or it SEEMS logical, I generally understand that they are not attempting to state facts but merely what they have heard or ideas they may have so that those that are more educated on the subject can enlighten them. In any case that was my intention if i didn't make it sound that way. The statements that you refer to were only posted after I read some of the comments from other posters...I was merely temporarily assuming what they said to be true for the sake of conversation.

 

[kwaichang]

allenjp: IMO, you were correct in your posts. The ninja were a counter culture to the established Samurai, etc. and they were not recognized as "normal society members". Sort of like the Yakuza of the 20th century.
Oh, and "Ronin" were not necessarily ninja's as they were masterless Samurai who might take on a job that the more "civilized" warriors might not.
Ninja clans were family as a rule and very secretive, even between clans.

 

[allenjp]

allenjp: IMO, you were correct in your posts. The ninja were a counter culture to the established Samurai, etc. and they were not recognized as "normal society members". Sort of like the Yakuza of the 20th century.
Oh, and "Ronin" were not necessarily ninja's as they were masterless Samurai who might take on a job that the more "civilized" warriors might not.
Ninja clans were family as a rule and very secretive, even between clans.

Thank you, but once again I will state that these ideas do not belong to me. I have referred to the comments of other posters for the sake of conversation but I am not forwarding any opinions as my own. I am asking the question to get others' opinions on them, or sources of facts to get info from.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

allenjp: IMO, you were correct in your posts. The ninja were a counter culture to the established Samurai, etc. and they were not recognized as "normal society members". Sort of like the Yakuza of the 20th century.
Oh, and "Ronin" were not necessarily ninja's as they were masterless Samurai who might take on a job that the more "civilized" warriors might not.
Ninja clans were family as a rule and very secretive, even between clans.

Proof please. Beyond what Hayes told you.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I was merely temporarily assuming what they said to be true for the sake of conversation.

Well, you made a good effort then, unfortunately it's not true.

 

[allenjp]

Thank you for the info, I have spent some time reading threads and posts from you as well as heretic888, and also someone named Don Roley (I think that's his name) and I appreciate the fact that you constantly call for sources to back up claims, and present those sources which you have consulted other than the BS that can be found on many websites. This is in fact the very reason I started this thread...to get real historical information from people who know, so that I could sift through what really is BS more easily. I will do searches to read more of the aforementioned threads...by the way, being a professional foreign language interpreter, and having studied a great deal of central and south american history and culture I can appreciate the difficulty of relating ancient texts from another language and culture into today's English. I am glad that there are those who have taken the time to do IN DEPTH studies of these subjects so that the rest of us may benefit as well. Can anyone refer me to where I can get GOOD books on this history (in English of course)?

 

[kwaichang]

Thank you, but once again I will state that these ideas do not belong to me. .

Ok, then in the words of "Emily LaTilla"; "never mind".:wink2:

 

[allenjp]

I wonder if either green eyed bandit or heretic888 could answer the original question of the thread for me...namely, did Shinobi No Mono wear that type of head covering, or do we even know for sure?

 

[kwaichang]

may I suggest that Japanese cinema may have answered that as even the earliest films showed the use of a facial covering and they should know their own culture; so it might have been a cloth, a mask or a full face devil mask (such masks are on display in Japan as being used by ninja.

 

[allenjp]

Found this book,

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1841765252/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

This shows what appears to be a historical Japanese picture of a Shinobi in the typical head covering while attempting to assasinate Nobunaga (did I spell that right?)

Can anybody tell me if this drawing (or the book for that matter) is legit?

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Found this book,

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1841765252/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

This shows what appears to be a historical Japanese picture of a Shinobi in the typical head covering while attempting to assasinate Nobunaga (did I spell that right?)

Can anybody tell me if this drawing (or the book for that matter) is legit?

That drawing won't be considered historical until long after you and I are both dead...and as have been stated before, the black garments usually envisioned as ninja clothing are actually from the Kabuki theatre. I guarantee you that most Japanese are more knowledgeable about Kabuki than historical shinobi no mono/ninja/rappa/suppa/kusa/teisatsu etc etc etc...

The book in question is nothing to get excited about either.

 

[allenjp]

That drawing won't be considered historical until long after you and I are both dead...and as have been stated before, the black garments usually envisioned as ninja clothing are actually from the Kabuki theatre. I guarantee you that most Japanese are more knowledgeable about Kabuki than historical shinobi no mono/ninja/rappa/suppa/kusa/teisatsu etc etc etc...

The book in question is nothing to get excited about either.

lol I guess you're right. everything becomes "historical" at some point or other, thanks.

 

[kwaichang]

**HERE'S THE PUBLISHERS BLURB**THIS IS A JAPANESE BOOK NOW AVAILABLE IN ENGLISH**
Now you see them, now you don't. Peek inside the Ninja's world and discover the skills, weapons, and ingenious tricks that made these men and women feared and revered for centuries. Learn Ninja techniques for meditation, stealth, and fighting dirty. Study their diet, ancient codes, workout and accupressure points. Find out what it really meant to be a Ninja in old Japan. Want to know everything about one of Japan's most famous legends? This is the book for you.
For your ordering convenience, this beautiful all-color photobook ships from our San Diego office. Fully in English, with loads of information for you!http://www.japan-stores.com/gallery/album05/ninja_p25_small

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

**HERE'S THE PUBLISHERS BLURB**THIS IS A JAPANESE BOOK NOW AVAILABLE IN ENGLISH**
Now you see them, now you don't. Peek inside the Ninja's world and discover the skills, weapons, and ingenious tricks that made these men and women feared and revered for centuries. Learn Ninja techniques for meditation, stealth, and fighting dirty. Study their diet, ancient codes, workout and accupressure points. Find out what it really meant to be a Ninja in old Japan. Want to know everything about one of Japan's most famous legends? This is the book for you.
For your ordering convenience, this beautiful all-color photobook ships from our San Diego office. Fully in English, with loads of information for you!http://www.japan-stores.com/gallery/album05/ninja_p25_small

...by Hiromitsu Kuroi of Kuroi ryu fame.

I am your pantry chef manifested out of pulsating anxiety. Your life juice tastes of iron in the black jaws of the monster. Ectoplasma pours out of the electricity outlets and the maternal murderer salutes his own pale sweating horror-inducing mirror image in the loneliest of all cryoerotic november nights. Do you feel the cold? It is Death, which is soon to arrive in all it's precipitous playfulness.

 

[allenjp]

...by Hiromitsu Kuroi of Kuroi ryu fame.

I am your pantry chef manifested out of pulsating anxiety. Your life juice tastes of iron in the black jaws of the monster. Ectoplasma pours out of the electricity outlets and the maternal murderer salutes his own pale sweating horror-inducing mirror image in the loneliest of all cryoerotic november nights. Do you feel the cold? It is Death, which is soon to arrive in all it's precipitous playfulness.

Dude...you forgot to invoke heretic this time!

 

[Kacey]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please, return to the original topic.

Karen Cohn
MT Senior Moderator

 

[allenjp]

OK, I think I found the answer to my question (just in case anyone is interested). I went to Barnes & Noble and found a book written by Masaaki Hatsumi. He is the ultimate living authority on Ninjutsu nes pas?
Well in his book (I can't remember the name of the book but it had "ninja" in the title, and it WAS HIS book, had his name all over it, his picture on the front and back, and many pictures of him with Nagato demonstrating techniques on the inside). Well, there, in a section called "ninja apparel", were the instructions of how to tie and wear the ninja head covering, and it looks a lot like what we have all seen in the movies. The only major difference was that the nose was not covered. As a matter of fact, there were at least a few pictures of his students wearing the kabuki theater style "ninja" getup, and a lot of black everywhere...kinda surprised me. Any comments?

 

[kwaichang]

Sure. Hatsumi Sensei's book shows how historical ninja wrapped their face; he showed us in Japan how it was done; using the wide obi normally worn around the waist. The other photos are of students who had or bought the kabuki dress because it was easier to find and cheaper to buy, yet satisfied the requirements of a black "uniform".
Hope this helps.

 

[allenjp]

Easier to find and cheaper to buy than what?