New Implications on Ninjitsu(ism)

[sojobow]

Keep the Discussion polite and respectfull.
Seig
MT Operations Admin

You're right. I'll try.

 

[althaur]

Since we know that the Sulsa were involved with the expatriation of the House of Paekchae, and according to traditional japanese history, Ninja did not exist at this time in Japan, what do you think happened to the Kwarang Sulsa coming to Japan in 600 a.d.?

YOu got this from another knucklehead on here that can't quote sources. This is nothing more than guesses. Nowhere in the link above did it say anything about Sulsa. You assume this because of someone else trying to rewrite history for the benefit of himself and his art. Besides, the link has nothing at all to do with Ninjutsu. Other than the fact that it is about Japan. I guess if I link an article about Tokyo Disneyland, we can assume that Walt was a Ninja.

:bs: :ninja:

 

[sojobow]

YOu got this from another knucklehead on here that can't quote sources. This is nothing more than guesses. Nowhere in the link above did it say anything about Sulsa. You assume this because of someone else trying to rewrite history for the benefit of himself and his art. Besides, the link has nothing at all to do with Ninjutsu. Other than the fact that it is about Japan. I guess if I link an article about Tokyo Disneyland, we can assume that Walt was a Ninja.

For the 4th time, here is my source: http://www.bstkd.com/culturejap.htm

I don't know the "knucklehead" or the "link" you are referring to but I would like to read it and the "knucklehead's" post. Please show me the link. You also make assumptions that I wouldn't make. Again, we've taken this "history" far enough and its time for a change of subjects. But, if "Sulsa" was the name of the Korean Profession likened to Japan's "Ninja," it wouldn't be to large a step in logic. There are other sources "outside" of Japan that researched their dissertations while "in Japan." I, at least, listen. It's all interesting to say the least. I don't think anyone in Japan really cares what sojobow thinks about their history so lets just have fun discussing opinions.

I'd like also to hear/read your opinion of the culturejap.htm article. Is it plausible or not?

 

[Kreth]

I'd like also to hear/read your opinion of the culturejap.htm article. Is it plausible or not?

Given that the author of the article, much like you, gives no information as to his sources, I'd hardly call this credible. Again, just because something is written on the Internet, does not make it true.

Jeff

 

[Kizaru]

I guess if I link an article about Tokyo Disneyland, we can assume that Walt was a Ninja.

You mean he's not!?!?! I've been fooled all these years!!!

 

[Enson]

Given that the author of the article, much like you, gives no information as to his sources, I'd hardly call this credible. Again, just because something is written on the Internet, does not make it true.

Jeff

not that i'm defending anyone. in fact my internet went down so i'm barely catching up on my reading on this site...

just because something is written in a book doesn't make it true either.
peace

 

[Enson]

For the 4th time, here is my source: http://www.bstkd.com/culturejap.htm

sojobow... do you ever get tired of going to battle? you know they hate your sensei. that is their biggest issue. then the second on the their list is your opinions on ninjutsu that doesn't match up with history books. no ninja ever used an f-17. anyway like i said before present a picture of your sensei's training. then present actual proof of your take on history. (i.e. book, page #, paragraph...etc.) and you win.
if you can't then... if i were you i wouldn't say to much more on this topic.
peace

 

[sojobow]

Given that the author of the article, much like you, gives no information as to his sources, I'd hardly call this credible. Again, just because something is written on the Internet, does not make it true.
Jeff

You don't need a source to give us your thoughts on the information presented in the article.

 

[sojobow]

sojobow... do you ever get tired of going to battle? you know they hate your sensei. that is their biggest issue. then the second on the their list is your opinions on ninjutsu that doesn't match up with history books. no ninja ever used an f-17. anyway like i said before present a picture of your sensei's training. then present actual proof of your take on history. (i.e. book, page #, paragraph...etc.) and you win.
if you can't then... if i were you i wouldn't say to much more on this topic.
peace

I hear you. I've posted information that "they have agreed with" but then ask me for a source. If they agree with me, what's the reason for a source? You have stated correctly the major problem they have. The secondary problem is that they have no definition of what is 1)Ninja, and 2)Ninjutsu and 3)Ninjitsu - at least one that we can all agree with. Another problem is that I don't have to justify my opinions based upon the Ryu-ha I practice. Thus, I can look at the Ninja for what it is and not what I am told it is.

Here's an example: The first sword used by both the Ninja of Japan and the Samurai of Japan was a straight, double-edged sword "made in China" and reproduced in Japan called a "Ken" or something sounding the same. The Katana evolved after the Ken. The Ninja-To is real, not from the movies, but from the weapon collection of the Ninja which actually used more than one "sword" as also the Samurai used more than one "sword." Now, I'll be asked for a source (after I'm called a few names). They'l say "no it wasn't" but they won't tell us what was - with, or without a source. I say it was the straight "Ken," now watch what happens.

 

[sojobow]

no ninja ever used an f-17.

Noticed this reference a number of times now. Want to see a pure depiction of Ninja? Watch the first 7 Minutes of Paramount Pictures "The Hunter." I have a different definition of Ninja than you. To you, no Ninja ever used an F-17 or an F-1-11. I say, the Ninja invented both. But, it's just semantics. Food for thought. No questions please - just answers.

 

[Enson]

Another problem is that I don't have to justify my opinions based upon the Ryu-ha I practice. Thus, I can look at the Ninja for what it is and not what I am told it is.

watch what happens.

i will agree with you on that. people here do go harder on you then they would any other because of your history. now... you should be able to post your opinion on any given topic because you do claim to practice a "ninja" style. i have never been one for defending a certificate/lineage/belt... just want to defend my life and the lives of my loved ones.

you have a lot of fire in you and you speak as though you know it all, and that is another issue people have with you. for me...? it doesn't affect me either way. you should just state that those are your opinions and not be so "matter of fact" about everything you say.

example the sword topic you just said: although it should be in a different thread is your opinion off of whatever study you have done. you should start by saying..."from what i have read", "in my opinion", "from what mr. dux has taught me", etc. not this is how it is and thats all. just be open to the fact that you might not be correct in everything, and take some advise instead of trying to give it on every topic.
peace

 

[Kreth]

you have a lot of fire in you and you speak as though you know it all, and that is another issue people have with you. for me...? it doesn't affect me either way. you should just state that those are your opinions and not be so "matter of fact" about everything you say.

And there you have it. Add to that, referring to himself in the 3rd person. I could care less what he studies. Those who aren't fooling themselves know Dux for what he is, hell, even the casual CourtTV viewer does... It just irks me when sojobow posts his fantasies as fact.

Jeff

 

[sojobow]

And there you have it. Add to that, referring to himself in the 3rd person. I could care less what he studies. Those who aren't fooling themselves know Dux for what he is, hell, even the casual CourtTV viewer does... It just irks me when sojobow posts his fantasies as fact. Jeff

These threads do have a subject. None of which include Hanshi or myself. Try discussing the subject(s). Your opinions on matters not pertaining to the subject of the threads is very irritating and somewhat adolescent. All was asked is an opinion on an article posted on the web. Seems we all post our fantasids as fact. If I'm incorrect, show me where. If you can't show where I am wrong, other than your opinion, I must be right or you are just unable to show me where I am incorrect.

 

[Kreth]

If I'm incorrect, show me where. If you can't show where I am wrong, other than your opinion, I must be right or you are just unable to show me where I am incorrect.

It's been done, several times, by myself and others. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

Jeff

 

[sojobow]

It's been done, several times, by myself and others. You just refuse to acknowledge it. Jeff

Sure I have agreed with you more than once. You just refuse to acknowledge it. Anyway, still evading the thread subjects are we? Try discussing something else other than sojobow.

 

[sojobow]

example the sword topic you just said: although it should be in a different thread is your opinion off of whatever study you have done. you should start by saying..."from what i have read", "in my opinion", "from what mr. dux has taught me", etc. not this is how it is and thats all. just be open to the fact that you might not be correct in everything, and take some advise instead of trying to give it on every topic. peace

Stand for something (which I believe in). If you're confortable with what you have learned, why be affraid to state it as fact. It's not written in concrete. Here is a novel idea. Go to swordforum.com and ask anyone. Try asking Dale Seago about the ancient swords. He's a Bujinkan and traditionalist so the Don's will not challenge him on the subject. I'm confortable that the swordsmen in that forum will answer your question if you're concerned with its Ken references.

 

[heretic888]

Oh dear buddha....

Sojobow, you aren't still trying to pass off that Hollywood version of the ninja-to as a "real historical weapon" again, are you??

Geez... next thing you know, we'll all be reminded on how the jizamurai are members of the hinin caste. *chuckle, chuckle*

 

[sojobow]

Oh dear buddha....

Sojobow, you aren't still trying to pass off that Hollywood version of the ninja-to as a "real historical weapon" again, are you?? Geez... next thing you know, we'll all be reminded on how the jizamurai are members of the hinin caste. *chuckle, chuckle*

No. But I do wish we knew where the first "Hollywood version" came from. I'd like to know where the producer or researcher got his information. Something like the research done for The Last Samurai's Ninja Attack. Where/whom did they base there depiction on. My "real historical weapon" has to do with "a straight-blade" sword (Jian etc). Also, what I'd like to know is, in a real-life fight today, would a Kan use a "Hollywood Version Ninja-To" if one was just leaning against the wall when the bad guys jumped him? Or, would he say something like: "I (an X-Kan) wouldn't be caught dead with a fake Hollywood weapon if my life depended on it? Just a thought in this modern world.

And yes, I do own one. It sticks people in the eye real well. Darn thing works.

 

[sojobow]

What would help "your case" is a daily regimen of Ridalin.
Just because something is on the internet does not make it true. Just the other day I was reading the rantings of this guy who called the F-16 a "ninja weapon." Oh wait, nevermind...Jeff

Hey. Yo Jeff. Check this out. Enson found a website in another thread regarding Andrew's school. One of the posters in the other forum made the following statement which had me OTFRIP (laughing) :

"Light_Wings says in part:........B.) Even if so, Hatsumi (I think it was him) once said a Ninja most know everything. He used the examples of firing a gun or fly an airplane because riding a horse and wielding a sword would not help a Ninja to complete a mission in this day in time, so should he have one for some reason..............."

Was it I or he you were referring to. Oh wait, nevermind I know, it was me.:idunno:

 

[Genin Andrew]

Heretic,

The ninjato is a common weapon of the ninja in hollywood, and yes hollywood did make the sword famous...and fictional, regarding association with ninjutsu. But then why does Hayes make reference to the Ninjato in his books? Why does the Ninjato have a place in the Iga Ninja museum? Are you saying that a straight bladed katana never existed? The chokuto design?

And for those of us that know, The straight bladed katana definately did exist. That is fact. Who's to say the Ninja never used it? I'm not saying i agree with Hollywood by any means i'm just saying that given the evidence who are you to say that the Ninja never used a straight sword? There are many who believe that as far as "ninja warriors" go, the movies and video games are to blame for the Ninja/Ninjato stereotype, But I personally wouldnt say that is entirely true. I believe the Ninja more commonly used shinogi zukuri "standard curved" katanas,it makes alot more sense, practicality, inconspicuous etc. But i'm sure at some point they would have used the Chokuto design.

So i think due to the lack of "concrete evidence" for and against we shouldn't be saying "purely hollywood" was responsible. Even the Bujinkan use the Ninjato...I just think we need to be a little more open to possibility.

thanks
-andrew