Need Something to Learn for SD

JowGaWolf

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Very sensible to be scared of knives to be honest, I wish more people were so they'd give then some respect and stop teaching this 'just kick it out of the hand' rot. There is an awful lot of bad knife defence being taught.
Yeah I agree with this completely. After my son learned his dagger form and it's applications, it became really clear to me that the majority of the knife defense videos on youtube are just going to get someone cut. There's one technique that literally peels the flesh off the arm like an apple but in bigger chunks and from what I can tell it appears to be something that would done when someone tries to seize the knife hand.

I don't have a lot of time free either.
Out of everything that you said, this is your biggest problem. I don't know of any martial arts for self-defense that is a fast learning system. Martial arts takes time. Learning the Form or technique is actually fast. Learning how to apply it in a real fight requires a deeper understanding of the technique, of yourself, and of various types of attacks that you are most likely to have to deal with. The chances that you'll fight someone who knows the same martial art that you know is very slim, especially if you live in the U.S.

If you don't have a lot of time then definitely don't take a Chinese Martial art which will cover knife defense.

Sapphire brings up some good points as well. I always cared about Martial Arts from a self-defense perspective and when I went shopping around, I knew the martial art style had to be practical and not fancy and not used in a sport. Sometimes the martial arts schools that boast about trophies for forms, and point sparring are the ones that you want to stay away from. The ones that talk about continuous sparring and getting into the ring are the ones that focus more on applying the techniques in real life fight situations.
 

Sapphire

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If you don't have a lot of time then definitely don't take a Chinese Martial art which will cover knife defense.

Sapphire brings up some good points as well. I always cared about Martial Arts from a self-defense perspective and when I went shopping around, I knew the martial art style had to be practical and not fancy and not used in a sport. Sometimes the martial arts schools that boast about trophies for forms, and point sparring are the ones that you want to stay away from. The ones that talk about continuous sparring and getting into the ring are the ones that focus more on applying the techniques in real life fight situations.

Just remember that the difference between "ring" and "street" is the planning. You plan for a ring fight and train a good, what, 3 hours a day for a solid 6, 9, 12 months, whatever, to get ready for a "ring" fight. A street fight doesn't give you that luxury. The average person trains 5 hours a week half assed for street fights when they could happen anywhere, not just in dark alley ways. Someone gets pissed at you at work, someone gets too drunk at a party and starts flailing at everyone, a guy grabs you from behind while his friend tries to grope your girlfriend, anything. Not having time to train is akin to not having time to face reality.
 

JowGaWolf

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The average person trains 5 hours a week half assed for street fights when they could happen anywhere, not just in dark alley ways. Someone gets pissed at you at work, someone gets too drunk at a party and starts flailing at everyone, a guy grabs you from behind while his friend tries to grope your girlfriend, anything. Not having time to train is akin to not having time to face reality.
This is so true. The average person trains 5 hours a week or less, because not all martial arts students show up for every class or practices outside of class. Then take into consideration how many days are dedicated to forms and how many days are dedicated to sparring / real-life self defense. It's definitely not a quick process.

The worst thing about a knife is that it's a stealth weapon, meaning that the attacker can keep it hidden right up to the point before the actual attack. If someone "prison shanks" you with knife then none of the knife defenses are going to help you. The knife defenses only help when you actually see the knife before it cuts you. This is the danger of a knife attack

This is how our brain would most likely react to a vicious knife attack (0:35 Mark)

There's a video on youtube called "knife attacks myths" that shows actual stealth and rushed knife attacks that were caught on camera. I didn't post the video here but you can check it out if you are interested in knowing what you are against.

Here are 2 guys that I assume are trained to fight with a knife. The only advantages that they have is
1. That they see the knife before the attack
2. The knives aren't real
3. It's only weapons sparring.
 

Sapphire

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This is so true. The average person trains 5 hours a week or less, because not all martial arts students show up for every class or practices outside of class. Then take into consideration how many days are dedicated to forms and how many days are dedicated to sparring / real-life self defense. It's definitely not a quick process.

Yes. Though you can speed it up by continuously thinking on the idea of situation awareness and studying body language, as well as getting into shape in various other ways. Sprinting and dynamic core exercises like kettle bells for explosive movements.

The worst thing about a knife is that it's a stealth weapon, meaning that the attacker can keep it hidden right up to the point before the actual attack. If someone "prison shanks" you with knife then none of the knife defenses are going to help you. The knife defenses only help when you actually see the knife before it cuts you. This is the danger of a knife attack

You see the only problem I really have with this is that it assumes that you're getting attacked by a wild and crazy knife wielder. By no means am I saying this will never happen to someone who does a, b, and c to keep themselves safe, but there is in my opinion much more chance of getting jumped by someone who is more afraid of the knife than you are than there is of getting surprised prison shanked. This is why situational awareness is the number one thing I insist people think about -- I even surprise my 20 y/o little sister from time to time just to keep her from walking with her eyes glued to her phone.

Here are 2 guys that I assume are trained to fight with a knife. The only advantages that they have is
1. That they see the knife before the attack
2. The knives aren't real
3. It's only weapons sparring.

Yeah watching people who know what they're doing with a knife is always interesting. Though it seems that the less a person trains with a knife, the more likely they are to slash wildly, while someone who trains with a knife regularly is going to be more fond of precision stabs. I don't regularly see much "defanging the snake" anymore. Slash at the hand, then you don't necessarily need to stab them because they're unarmed.
 

JowGaWolf

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You see the only problem I really have with this is that it assumes that you're getting attacked by a wild and crazy knife wielder.
I always assume the worst case scenario. I figure that if I'm prepared to mentally handle the worst case scenario, then I'll be able to focus on what needs to be done vs freezing up and trying to figure out what to do in the heat of chaos where everything is a blur. I'm like that with everything and not just self-defense. When I was a kid there was always some other kid that was being jumped afterschool, in the street, or in the locker room. I had to grow up being sensitive to when someone is trying to size me up for something unpleasant or just sizing me up period to "dominate" in some kind of manner that may be violent or non-violent.
It's that you remind your sister that there are other things she should be paying attention to than the phone when walking.

someone who trains with a knife regularly is going to be more fond of precision stabs.
The IDF guy did a precision slash to Airborne's wrist (1:16 mark) followed by a bad parry to the blade (cut fingers) that he did over and over.
 

crazydiamond

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Kali would be great system to try for Knife, Baton and some "dirty" fighting-found this near you with a google search. Part of my MMA training includes Kali and I get plenty of knife and stick work with other things. Although the common advise from my instructors when someone has a knife.... "Run Away" unless there is no choice.

Florida FCS Kali
536 SW 2nd Ave

Gainesville, FL 32601
 

Chrisoro

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I would definately recommend Lee Morrison織s latest book, The Complete Book of Urban Combatives, for the OP. In this book, Lee gives you a complete self-protection game plan about everything to do from the moment you become aware of something potentially dangerous(and also includes such things as how to escape before anything happens, and de-escalation strategies), to the moment when something physical have come down and the dust settles. Most martial arts and combat sports focus only on the fighting aspect, ignoring a large part of what should constitute self protection, while still branding themselves as "Self Defense".

Lee also includes a chapter on both knife defense and knife offence, based on a mix of western millitary combatives and fillipino arts. His knife defense principles is some of the best I have ever seen, and having trained with Lee in person, I can attest to the fact that he is able to do anything in his book against resistance in the gym. And so can most other people after some training, since these techniques is all gross motor with quite simple mechanics.
 

Taekwondoguy

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Advice is to try a class at your local schools and go from there. Needs to feel right to join.
 
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