Need some Hapkido info

[shesulsa]

Hello all.

My background is a Hwaragdo-based system. Last week, a Hapkido master and Kuk Sul Won master who relocated across the country referred some former students of his to me; apparently I'm the nearest instructor to them with a similar approach.

I have noticed that their stances seem Japanese to me - this could definitely be some ignorance on my part to the stances in Hapkido. When I think of Korean stances, I think of ten toes in the same direction, mostly. These high-color ranking students have stances with open hips and toes pointing outward.

I'm also a bit surprised that the green belt does not know how to perform a roundhouse kick or spin kick and the forms appear to be Japanese forms, though I was told they are Kuk Sul forms.

I do not know the traditional Japanese forms but gosh do they look like traditional Japanese forms.

Does anyone have some feedback for me as to stance approach in Hapkido or a reference for videos of traditinal Hapkido and/or Kuk Sul forms?

Thanks much!

 

[Chrisoro]

I don't know much about Wharangdo, but Hapkido is a deriviate of Daito Ryu Aiki-jujutsu, and in my experience does not have the same focus on detailed, defined stances as in arts such as TaeKwonDo or Karate. The stances is more seen as something dynamic which you move trough as part of changing direction of movement/energy or as part of positioning yourself in regard to your opponent. We do have words for some of our stances, but exept for ready-stance and fighting stance, we seldom stay in any kind of stance for long, as we would do when training TKD.

 

[Raymond]

Hello all.

My background is a Hwaragdo-based system. Last week, a Hapkido master and Kuk Sul Won master who relocated across the country referred some former students of his to me; apparently I'm the nearest instructor to them with a similar approach.

I have noticed that their stances seem Japanese to me - this could definitely be some ignorance on my part to the stances in Hapkido. When I think of Korean stances, I think of ten toes in the same direction, mostly. These high-color ranking students have stances with open hips and toes pointing outward.

I'm also a bit surprised that the green belt does not know how to perform a roundhouse kick or spin kick and the forms appear to be Japanese forms, though I was told they are Kuk Sul forms.

I do not know the traditional Japanese forms but gosh do they look like traditional Japanese forms.

Does anyone have some feedback for me as to stance approach in Hapkido or a reference for videos of traditinal Hapkido and/or Kuk Sul forms?

Thanks much!

It's hard to say because the thing is there is not "one" Hapkido. I won't even say there are multiple styles of Hapkido like you could say there are multiple styles of Karate. Hapkido is very ecclectic and loosely defined. Of course there are people who will say "this Hapkido is the REAL Hapkido" but for the most part, there are about as many "ways of doing Hapkido" as there are practitioners of the art.

While I think for my own personal development of martial art that a diverse striking curriculum is important, I wouldn't be surprised if a Hapkido practitioner didn't spend much time to developing a round kick since some of the members of our art spend much of their time on defensive techniques such as grab defenses and throws, and little time on dynamic strikes (and those people would probably only include a few simple strikes like stomping on the foot).

The fact you mention forms is interesting as well, since the earliest precursor to Hapkido was Daito-Ryu Aiki-Jiujitsu and as far as I know, Dojunim Choi didn't teach forms and his full curriculum was reportedly consisted of only 100 techniques. Of course if you spend any time in the art, you will find much contention on these things.

Much like any art, people within Hapkido have cross pollinated and exchanged ideas with other arts for decades now. Which I guess is why you would often see a lot of intermarriage between people doing TKD and people doing HKD.

So before I ramble on too long, I'll summarize. The tricky part and one of the beautiful parts of HKD is that there is no one HKD. So if some students you have taken on totally don't fit your expectations of HKD, then don't be surprised. At the end of the day, if they were doing HKD of any type then they should be trained in and know the three basic, most accepted principles:
The Water Principle
The Non-resistance Principle
The Circle Principle

Since one could interpret those principles in any number of ways, you're likely to see a HKD student of many flavors.

 

[jks9199]

I know that you're trying to help them and to work with them -- but the reality is that if they're in your class, they need to catch up and learn "your" way. There are reasons you do things and teach things, and you can't bounce around to please everyone. It's really no different than if they had come in to your school "fresh", having left the other program for any other reason. I'd work with them, but I wouldn't worry too much about what they "used to" do...

 

[shesulsa]

Trying for some due diligence.

 

[Mephisto]

When teaching guys with previous I try to acknowledge that there are different ways to accomplish things and apply technique. I encourage students to compartmentalize their knowledge. When they're with me working curriculum they train my way, when their in another art they train it the intended way. When they spar or train alone they can draw on whatever method they choose and experiment. I never assume my way is best and others are wrong.

 

[oftheherd1]

First, it is correct that there are many kwans and their instructors get to choose how and what they teach within their organization's guidelines. Some do forms, some don't. Apparently the same with kicks. In the Hapkido I learned, we did a lot of kicks, for their value as weapons, to learn power and control, and as exercise. Obviously we did a lot of grappling. We learned the rudiments of weapons, but more to learn defenses.

But what jks9199 said is exactly correct. You don't teach HKD, so they have to know that, and that you aren't going to try. Being experienced in MA study, they should progress faster than your other new students. I would think if they are going to study there, they need to know they are going to have to begin again, with the knowledge they will progress faster at least at the beginning. If they can't accept that, encourage them to move on to something else they like, where of course, they will have to start at the beginning.

As to stances, one of the first things I learned when I began studying was that Hapkido isn't always rigid. I had previously studied TKD and there was one way to do things and we all learned it that way. I assumed HKD was the same. I was having a problem with something and asked the instructor what was the exact way it was supposed to be done. He quickly let me know that the results was what was important. We would be taught what was considered the best way to achieve the desired result (and it usually was), but it was really up to us to make it work. As long as it achieved the desired result quickly, strongly and efficiently, it was good. So a stance that is best for a student, without causing problems or exposing vulnerabilities, will probably be allowed.

I don't know how open you or your controlling instructor are to learning any HKD techniques you don't have in your system. But you might let them demonstrate some to you to see if you would like to teach your better students those techniques. If you don't do throws, or even if you do, it might be worthwhile to learn their way of doing break falls. Many styles do it differently. None are wrong if they allow easy falling without injury. You can never have too many tools, and you may run across an opponent who throws you in a way you aren't used to.

Good luck to you and to them. It will be difficult for them to learn a new art when they have probably decided they already study the 'best' one around, and you may lose patience more easily.

 

[dancingalone]

The burning question to me is that Kuk Sul Won and Hwarangdo should be similar in feel and execution to each other. Not rigid and focused on 'chime' like Japanese karate can be.

Look for a video of Kuk Sool Son's kicho hyung, the first one taught to white belts. It will be considerably more flowing that a typical I pattern karate form is. Don't confuse it with the kicho forms in Tang Soo Do or taekwondo however.