My coach won't promote me (bjj)

[Buka]

@Jonathan15, keep at it, it will all work out. You’re going to get your next belt before I will. I’ve been a BJJ white belt for twenty six years.

 

[lklawson]

the belt really means nothing

Sure it does. It's a symbol of acomplishment and a recognition of improvement. It marks off goals met and represents achievement.

These are all very important psychological factors in creating and maintaining motivation.

If you're playing a game and never win, how long are you going to keep playing?

This is both one of the drawbacks and one of the advantages of rank grading systems in martial arts.

So, yes, you're right, technically, that lack of a belt or rank doesn't mean the skill isn't there. But it does mean that the skills which may be there are unrecognized by the people who are supposed to not only be giving you those skills, but recognizing when you have them. Which, again, means significantly declining motivation.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[skribs]

Sure it does. It's a symbol of acomplishment and a recognition of improvement. It marks off goals met and represents achievement.

These are all very important psychological factors in creating and maintaining motivation.

If you're playing a game and never win, how long are you going to keep playing?

This is both one of the drawbacks and one of the advantages of rank grading systems in martial arts.

So, yes, you're right, technically, that lack of a belt or rank doesn't mean the skill isn't there. But it does mean that the skills which may be there are unrecognized by the people who are supposed to not only be giving you those skills, but recognizing when you have them. Which, again, means significantly declining motivation.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Rank can also be a requirement for certain privileges. For example, in KKW Taekwondo you need to be a 4th degree to become a master and have more autonomy.

 

[dvcochran]

Rank can also be a requirement for certain privileges. For example, in KKW Taekwondo you need to be a 4th degree to become a master and have more autonomy.

I understand that is the rule in KKW but you have to give a nod to someone who has continually worked out for decades, has tons of applied experience, but for what ever reason chose not to go high in ranking. I see that as a harder and possibly less focused path but the accomplishment is still there. I feel this is the thought process of a lot of folks who buck the belt system(s). I do think credibility outside the ring/mat is harder to establish without some sort of identification so if you are taking a more wholistic, long term view of training belting is very beneficial.
I for one enjoy and need the target but I don't think I actively go to class thinking I have to do/learn "X" to get to my next belt.

 

[drop bear]

I understand that is the rule in KKW but you have to give a nod to someone who has continually worked out for decades, has tons of applied experience, but for what ever reason chose not to go high in ranking. I see that as a harder and possibly less focused path but the accomplishment is still there. I feel this is the thought process of a lot of folks who buck the belt system(s). I do think credibility outside the ring/mat is harder to establish without some sort of identification so if you are taking a more wholistic, long term view of training belting is very beneficial.
I for one enjoy and need the target but I don't think I actively go to class thinking I have to do/learn "X" to get to my next belt.

Actually in BJJ it is pretty easy.

Compete.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hey man, thanks a lot fot the reply.
I really don't mind not getting promoted. But seeing my other peers, who started after me and are not better than me, get promoted while i'm being left out made me feel really bad.




Thank you for your comment. It's really interesting to here your perspective on this.

But why would an instructor promote X, if X isn't better than Y, isn't training more often than Y, and joined the gym almost half a year after?

I'm trying to be as objective and as humble as possible, those guys who got promoted, aren't better than me in any way.

Thanka again.

One of the things Tony mentioned was staying calm (and that likely includes controlled). Things like that can be harder to see about oneself. You may not yet perceive the thing others do better at than you.

 

[dvcochran]

Actually in BJJ it is pretty easy.

Compete.

Isn’t that true of all the primary styles today?

 

[Headhunter]

Sure it does. It's a symbol of acomplishment and a recognition of improvement. It marks off goals met and represents achievement.

These are all very important psychological factors in creating and maintaining motivation.

If you're playing a game and never win, how long are you going to keep playing?

This is both one of the drawbacks and one of the advantages of rank grading systems in martial arts.

So, yes, you're right, technically, that lack of a belt or rank doesn't mean the skill isn't there. But it does mean that the skills which may be there are unrecognized by the people who are supposed to not only be giving you those skills, but recognizing when you have them. Which, again, means significantly declining motivation.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Perhaps but that’s not the case for everyone. In my area Muay Thai gyms are some of the most popular places. While yes karate schools do have good student numbers but Muay Thai gyms definitely have more variety of students and I’ve spoken to a few who’ve come from traditional styles and one of their reasons for not training traditional is because they don’t enjoy the belt aspect. They don’t like how training is more centred around learning new material to get a belt and they prefer the more relaxed culture of Muay Thai gyms because there’s no hierarchy. Everyone in the gym does the same things and works with everyone, of course there’s the higher level people (the fighters or more experienced ) but it’s not determined by rank which is what some people like.

I don’t disagree with your point on belts especially for kids though

 

[jks9199]

Couple quick thoughts, based on your posts...

Have you asked your coaches why you weren't promoted? Sometimes, it's as simple as nobody suggesting you, especially if you rarely roll with instructors, and generally only roll with your couple of "mat buddies." Or, if you're avoiding rolling with coaches and better students, they may not have a good gauge for how well you actually know and can use the techniques. The criteria I've generally heard (haven't formally trained it myself) for "lower" promotions is BJJ is that you're rolling like you're at the new level; the belts are just external documentation of where you are.

The other part of that is thinking about who you roll with. It's a really easy habit to get into in any style of having a regular training partner or two, that you always seek out or they seek you out when drills, rolling, or other partner work comes up. But it's hard to learn to apply skills against different people if you don't work with different people. I deliberately bounce my students around different training partners to avoid that.

 

[lklawson]

Perhaps but that’s not the case for everyone.

Naturally. Nevertheless, it is a prevalent part of human psychology.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I understand that is the rule in KKW but you have to give a nod to someone who has continually worked out for decades, has tons of applied experience, but for what ever reason chose not to go high in ranking. I see that as a harder and possibly less focused path but the accomplishment is still there. I feel this is the thought process of a lot of folks who buck the belt system(s). I do think credibility outside the ring/mat is harder to establish without some sort of identification so if you are taking a more wholistic, long term view of training belting is very beneficial.
I for one enjoy and need the target but I don't think I actively go to class thinking I have to do/learn "X" to get to my next belt.

I don’t think there’s anything inherently higher about not pursuing rank.

In my opinion, much of the back-and-forth about rank is people expecting others to think and react like them. Motivators affect people differently, so some people don’t care about rank. If you don’t care about something, there’s no higher ethic in not pursuing that thing.

 

[drop bear]

Isn’t that true of all the primary styles today?

I don't know. BJJ comps generally have an open category. If you think you are a gun white belt. You can show people exactly how good you are.

 

[dunc]

Feeling like you missed out on a promotion sucks
Life and BJJ are not pure meritocracies and generally speaking the quiet, reserved, shy people get noticed less and as a result get promoted more slowly
At the end of the day you have to decide what you do in response....
Mostly when I’ve felt that I’ve missed out on a grading it’s irritated me and I’ve trained harder to prove the point

 

[drop bear]

I got promoted by the way. Dislocated my toe halfway through my grading and still had to roll for twenty minutes with fresh guys.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I got promoted by the way. Dislocated my toe halfway through my grading and still had to roll for twenty minutes with fresh guys.

Sweet! (Except for the toe.)

 

[_Simon_]

I got promoted by the way. Dislocated my toe halfway through my grading and still had to roll for twenty minutes with fresh guys.

Ah awesome, congrats! Ouch.. hope the toe recovers!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I got promoted by the way. Dislocated my toe halfway through my grading and still had to roll for twenty minutes with fresh guys.

Was thinking about this last night, and all the small and moderate injuries we get. I dislocated a thumb in a friend's black belt "self-defense" test, and still feel that sometimes. Dislocated a toe taking a fall from a shoulder throw (had never seen one before), and that's probably what led to the surgery I had a year or two ago (man, I really can't track time anymore).

I did not enjoy the injuries or the result of them, but I wouldn't trade the training to escape them.

 

[dvcochran]

I got promoted by the way. Dislocated my toe halfway through my grading and still had to roll for twenty minutes with fresh guys.

Funny story. At my 4th Dan (I think) testing my right thumb was dislocated by a gi (dobak) sleeve. My thumb was almost touching the top of my wrist. We stopped for a few minutes and a male student who was in M.D. school at Vanderbilt came over to help. He looked at it but would barely touch it and finally said something like "I think it is broken and needs to be set". I was much younger then and tended to have an emotional surge during an injury (still do). I gingerly grabbed my thump and started pulling. When I figured out which way to pull it made a noise I cannot really describe but will never forget when it finally jumped back in place. When it did the 'doctor' passed smooth out.
Had the thumb taped to my hand and kept going with testing. I am left handed so there was very little I could not still do. Granted my sparring style changed quite a bit after that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Funny story. At my 4th Dan (I think) testing my right thumb was dislocated by a gi (dobak) sleeve. My thumb was almost touching the top of my wrist. We stopped for a few minutes and a male student who was in M.D. school at Vanderbilt came over to help. He looked at it but would barely touch it and finally said something like "I think it is broken and needs to be set". I was much younger then and tended to have an emotional surge during an injury (still do). I gingerly grabbed my thump and started pulling. When I figured out which way to pull it made a noise I cannot really describe but will never forget when it finally jumped back in place. When it did the 'doctor' passed smooth out.
Had the thumb taped to my hand and kept going with testing. I am left handed so there was very little I could not still do. Granted my sparring style changed quite a bit after that.

Man, that sounds like a scene in a questionable comedy film.