Mud walking not from Dong Haichuan!!!!

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
32,336
Reaction score
6,897
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
I was reading an article at work today on the old "Jarek's Chinese Martial Arts China From the Inside page" and it was talking about Yin Yang Ba Pan Zhang and a book that was written by one of the people from Yin Yang Ba Pan Zhang many years ago.

In that book they say that mud walking was not part of Bagua until Li Cunyi, Zhang Zhaodong, and Cheng Tinghua got together and then Baguazhang incorporated the Xingyiquan chicken step that became mud walking and that would be about 1900

I cannot link the article at the moment because my security system is blocking the Bagua page, no other pages on that site, jsut teh Baguazhang page

If I get on Road Runner at the office tomorrow I will link it

has anyone else heard anything like this?
 
OP
Xue Sheng

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
32,336
Reaction score
6,897
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Got it, here is the link

Brief Introduction to Yin Yang Bapanzhang

According to Xingyiquan practitioner Liu Weixiang (1862-1936), at the end of nineteenth century experts of Taijiquan (Liu Dekuan), Baguazhang (Cheng Tinghua) and Xingyiquan (Geng Jishan, Liu Weixiang and Li Cunyi) met in Beijing and became sworn brothers. They decided to combine their arts into one family. Only since that time "Mud Wading Step" has become very popular among Baguazhang practitioners and it was heavily influenced by strong straight steps of Xingyiquan
 

oaktree

Master of Arts
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
1,683
Reaction score
264
Location
Under an Oaktree
That could be why you don't see it so much in other bagua styles
And why it is not other bagua styles main way to step.
If we are to take dong learned his stepping from daoist
Then we would have to look at their walking as a reference.
Type "taoist ritual in cang nan" on YouTube. I'll try to link it
Later. But you can see a lot of similarities with bagua if we are using
The story dong learned circling from daoist.
 
OP
Xue Sheng

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
32,336
Reaction score
6,897
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
My first first sifu call the first bagua style taught me "old Dong Haichaun style" which basically does not exist. After much discussion he finally said it was really "old Yin style 8 palm" and there was no mud walking. Now whether or not that means anything I really cannot say because he was not always truthful as to what things were. However after much looking on YouTube I am fairly certain it is Yin 8 palm.
 

blindsage

Master of Arts
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
1,580
Reaction score
109
Location
Seattle, WA
Could be, wouldn't necessarily surprise me, but I don't see the connection between mud stepping and Xingyi stepping.
 

oaktree

Master of Arts
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
1,683
Reaction score
264
Location
Under an Oaktree
I guess the whole commitment of sliding with the foot forward as found
In xingyiquan and mud stepping but I don't think all xingyiquan schools slide forward either As oopposed to
Stepping. I think the connection is speculation, coincidence, or possibly one school of thought who combined them or took priciples
From one for the other.
 
OP
Xue Sheng

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
32,336
Reaction score
6,897
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Could be, wouldn't necessarily surprise me, but I don't see the connection between mud stepping and Xingyi stepping.

Do the Xingyiquan chicken step slowly, the do the mud step. They are not the same but there are similarities.

But you also have to take into account this comes from the Yin Yang Bapanzhang people and they are also claiming that thier Yin Yang Bapanzhang does not come from Dong Haichaun but it comes from the same Taoist Dong Haichuan learned from and there are those that have researched this more than I that seem to think it is clearly traceable to Dong Haichaun so you can take it for what you think it is worth

Prof. Kang Gewu, martial arts researcher from Beijing, proved that actually Bapanzhang came from Dong Haichuan through Liu Baozhen, one Dong's disciples from Wen'an County in Hebei Province.
 

TaiChiTJ

Brown Belt
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
491
Reaction score
47
Thanks for bringing the subject up, Xue Sheng. Good to know it may have been an add-on.

Years ago I purchased an instructional dvd on bg and the instructor casually mentioned the step was practice for getting in closer on the opponent. That's all he said.
 

oaktree

Master of Arts
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
1,683
Reaction score
264
Location
Under an Oaktree
Hey taichitj
I have heard similar comments from cheng and gao stylist.
From other stylist I have heard how impractical it is or its for show.
Anyway what dvd was it?
 
Top