muay thai health hazards

[white belt]

You cary next to no body fat on your shin, you are hitting with bone, that's it. [/QUOTE]

You haven't seen "LUNCH LADY MUAY THAI" LIVE AT THE SUPERDOME. SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAAAAY!!!

I flagged Mr. Mavis about this thread, but he seems pretty busy in Thailand right now. Check out his "TKD in Thailand" thread at the TKD area.

white belt

 

[Damian Mavis]

Welp.... I don't exactly have the "for sure answer" but I will tell you about my experiences.

Does Muay Thai make shins tougher and harder? It certainly feels that way. When I shield shin on shin with a newbie to Muay Thai it hurts.... when I shield an expert who's trained a long time it feels like I just got hit in the shin with a sharp edge of steel and it is excrutiating. I definately notice a difference...whether it's all in my head is another matter heh. Like someone already said I do know for sure that you deaden the nerves and feel less pain over time. Does this have negative long term effects? I dont think so but the real question is for which person? The average professional fighter in Thailand fights several hundred fights in their career. I can see some permanent damage happening to them but not to a guy who just trains in North America every day without taking thousands of full contact bare shin hits on bare shin.

BUT! If you saw the "RETIRED" fighters that are now trainers at Fairtex you wouldnt think they had ANY permanent damage. These guys are like 23 - 27 years old and are still in top form and can kick serious booty. Not a single one is limping around or complaining about injuries. That brings up another point, they retire that young because by your early twenties you have already fought several hundred times and probably were champion for a time. It doesnt seem to have anything to do with injuries accumulated after hundreds of fights. Only thing to do after that is retire and become a trainer since they dont have any other skills. They retire so young because they often start their career at the age of 6 or 7. Thailand is extremely poverty stricken, there's rich people but tons more seriously poor people. Some families can't afford to feed all their sons so will beg the local Muay Thai camp to take their child in. They start full time training and are fed, clothed and housed. They often start fighting at 6 years of age when kids in North America are whining about more icecream. It's sad but at least the kid is fully taken care of and becomes part of the Muay Thai family and is cared for by everyone there. To the fighters and trainers this is a job, they dont do it because they love it...to many it's the only option to survive.

Anyway, long story short...... the only people that really have to worry about long term damage is the Thai's. Fighters in North America simply will never fight enough in their careers to do the same kind of damage to their bodies. And that is the serious fighters like Alex Gong, the regular practitioners like me and everyone else that just trains with maybe a couple of fights will never have to worry. Unless they are an idiot and doing unsafe training techniques.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[white belt]

Good enough for me! Thanks Damian.

white belt

 

[Matt Stone]

I am a soldier. Have been for 11 years. In that time I have seen young, fit soldiers wind their way down the road to handicapped status by being "hooah."

The training in the military is tough. The physical fitness training is demanding. Then why do so many soldiers end their short careers (20 years is usually when most folks get out, and 20 years is nothing compared to some folks' careers in the civilian sector) with debilitating injuries that earn them disability compensation upon retirement?

I came in the Army in 1987. I was in perfect health, and was in pretty good shape. Now, 11 years later, I have 2 herniated discs (probably due to airborne training and constant running), degenerative joint disease (again, likely due to constant running), and arthritis as icing on the cake... How old am I? A fresh faced 34 years old.

So what does this have to do with Muay Thai? Nothing. Then again, the point is simple - beat your body, abuse it long enough, and eventually it will give out. You don't last forever, so conserve what you have while you are young while training to be fit when you are older...

Like Comrade Pavel says in his seminars "you'll miss your knees when they're gone."

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[ThuNder_FoOt]

I thought I read a similar thread in which someone stated that constant stress against the shins causes calcium deposits as repair for the abrasions on the shins. Calcium deposits... which are bone caluses, thereby making the shins harder. Along with the fact that it dullens the nerves of the shins.

Anyone else read that post? I think its a pretty logical hypothesis.

:asian:

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Made a strong case for drinking more milk and/or taking calcium supplement.

 

[muayThaiPerson]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
I am a soldier. Have been for 11 years. In that time I have seen young, fit soldiers wind their way down the road to handicapped status by being "hooah."

The training in the military is tough. The physical fitness training is demanding. Then why do so many soldiers end their short careers (20 years is usually when most folks get out, and 20 years is nothing compared to some folks' careers in the civilian sector) with debilitating injuries that earn them disability compensation upon retirement?

I came in the Army in 1987. I was in perfect health, and was in pretty good shape. Now, 11 years later, I have 2 herniated discs (probably due to airborne training and constant running), degenerative joint disease (again, likely due to constant running), and arthritis as icing on the cake... How old am I? A fresh faced 34 years old.

So what does this have to do with Muay Thai? Nothing. Then again, the point is simple - beat your body, abuse it long enough, and eventually it will give out. You don't last forever, so conserve what you have while you are young while training to be fit when you are older...

Like Comrade Pavel says in his seminars "you'll miss your knees when they're gone."

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

sounds like its best for people to leave their bodies alone and not workout. i never knkew workouts turn around and mess you up

 

[Matt Stone]

And getting beat on is hard...

Sure, you develop some extraordinary skills with constant beatings, but eventually, eventually you will have to pay the bill for all the wonderful things you got from the training...

It is a rare thing for an old soldier to still have good knees or an uninjured back. Why is that? Tough living, hard training. When you are young, no worries! Keep going! Train with the pain!

But eventually, eventually, the bill collector comes calling and the price is usually something you wouldn't normally want to pony up with - your knees functioning properly and pain free, being able to hop right out of bed without having to work yourself into a standing position first, being able to sit and lay comfortably about the house without needing support pillows or special drugs to help you cope with the constant aches...

Muay Thai produces great fighters. So does Kyokushin and many other arts. But take a look at what happens when they are older, and I would be willing to bet money there aren't all that many 65 year old practitioners of those arts that are still able to dish out the same level of training... Due, primarily, to old injuries keeping them from performing.

Train SMART, not HARD.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[fringe_dweller]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
sounds like its best for people to leave their bodies alone and not workout.

Hear hear! Let's just sit around and drink beer

Respectfully,

 

[muayThaiPerson]

What Mr.Mavias stated earlier, is quite true. Fighters fight to survivie. But thats not as common as it was 20-30 years ago. Only 12% of the population is poor. Mr.Mavais sounds like he knows alot about MT, very interesting to read his posts. :asian:

 

[Damian Mavis]

Only 12% of the Thai population is poor? Then they have a different standard for poor here. heh. For North american standards the majority of the population here lives in poverty.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[birney29]

Damian Mavis,

you talked about long term damage to fighters in Thailand, perhaps youd be interested to know that thailand has one of the highest shin bone cancer rates in the world. im also interested in the fact you said "Fighters in North America simply will never fight enough in their careers to do the same kind of damage to their bodies."

correct me if im wrong, but i dont think this is an america-centric question. there are other countries out there in which muay thai is popular. contrary to popular belief, North america is NOT the center of the universe

 

[white belt]

North America ISN'T THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE? I'm packing my bags! When my ancestors left Scotland and Ireland over 200 years ago, the travel agent mislead them!

Birney29,

Where did you get your stats on the Shin Cancer? Shin NOT Skin, right? Do the Scots / Irish still have the brutal art of "Purring" there? I think that's the name. You know the contest where the men hold each others shoulders and kick each other in the shins until one submits to defeat? Doc Martin, the shoe of champions! Sponsored by Guiness!

Where's my copy of Galileo's map?
white belt

 

[birney29]

Definately Shin Bone cancer. I cant remember where i read it originally. it was an article in a martial arts mag. ill try and find it. I also saw it mentioned in a documentry on the National Geographic channel, about Mauy Thai.

as for the Purring, ive never taken part in such an event, altho i know its still done up north (i live in central scotland). We also have a sport called Shinty. Possibly the most brutal game on the planet. Picture Field hockey crossed with ice hockey and lacross. And a lot more violent! no padding is worn, even by the goalies!! injurys and deaths are not uncommon. Only really played by the Scots and the Irish. and sometimes the welsh. The english are too scared to play!

 

[white belt]

Originally posted by birney29
Definately Shin Bone cancer. I cant remember where i read it originally. it was an article in a martial arts mag. ill try and find it. I also saw it mentioned in a documentry on the National Geographic channel, about Mauy Thai.

as for the Purring, ive never taken part in such an event, altho i know its still done up north (i live in central scotland). We also have a sport called Shinty. Possibly the most brutal game on the planet. Picture Field hockey crossed with ice hockey and lacross. And a lot more violent! no padding is worn, even by the goalies!! injurys and deaths are not uncommon. Only really played by the Scots and the Irish. and sometimes the welsh. The english are too scared to play!

Birney29,

Sport? Over here we call that a "group mugging"! The subject of potential injury gets my attention more and more as I get older. I am a TKD man in his forties. Any info. you can share is appreciated. Been doing MA for 20 years. Feel pretty good, but wise enough to keep a watchful eye.

white belt

 

[birney29]

yeah, im gonna try and do some more research into it. it caught my attention when i read that articlie. ive been doing wing chun about 2 and a half years, and starte muay thai 6 months ago. it really does pound your shins. id really like to knw the long term effects. im also an ice hockey goalie, and was told that because ive broke my fingers so often, i would likely have problems with them in later life, with arthritis and possibly bone cancer. great. ill let you know what i find

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Just condition your shin by kicking the Thai banana bag or just the heavy bag. Go gentle at first until you build up your pain tolerance. This way, no serious damage to your shin. The Thais used to kick banana tree in the old days. Banana tree is not exactly tree. It is very soft. May be even softer than your heavy bag.

 

[Damian Mavis]

Birney 29, sorry I put a birdy up your butt. I didnt mention any other countries because I dont know as much about them AND I do know that there are some European fighters that indeed do fight as much as the Thai fighters. I don't know of any North American fighters that do though. If my talking about North America bothers you.....well sorry.

The shin cancer thing is scary.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[ThuNder_FoOt]

Birney29,

Thats the first I heard about the highest shin bone cancer rate... what di you say the name of that article was??

 

[sweeper]

well I think it's also important to think about intensity.. if you fight every week or every other week (and I mean fight not spar) than you are fighting at a higher level of intensity and most likely your opponant is trying to hurt you.. getting micro fractures along your shins every couple weeks probably isn't good for them..