Moving on, a question

[Gerry Seymour]

One thing I'd consider when scoping out a striking style, be it Muay Thai, or something else, is stance compatibility. From what I've seen of Ninjutsu, they emphasize several rather unique stances, and another martial art may force you to operate from a different one. Just something to consider.

I think this is likely with any pair of arts (Shorin-ryu Karate students who train with me have to learn a new version of zenkutsu dachi, which drives them a bit nuts). I wouldn't choose a second art based on whether it uses new stances or not - the stances are just support for the movement style and bases for the technique.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm not saying this is why that teacher said that, but it just may be that he/she didn't know himself/herself. It takes a certain amount of teaching experience to be able to admit ignorance in the face of questions, so as to elicit the search for an answer. I use a thing I call "Let's go into lab mode" so we could figure things out. It's not a perfect metaphor, but it did get a different process going in class, sort of like the difference between "lecture" and "lab" while in college.

I've also used that answer with students...after having explained that some things aren't right or wrong, but are simply done a certain way at a specific point to work on something particular. And sometimes it's just preference. My preference, because I'm the teacher and get to make up the rules. Students understand "because I said so" is my way of saying it doesn't really matter, functionally - just do it this way so I can see you can do it this way, and feel free to explore other ways, too.

 

[jobo]

For starters, I'll just agree with @jobo (don't get used to it!) that if kickboxing interests you, it's a good next move. I'd say much the same about almost any MA you were interested in, because your personal interest will carry you through frustration and boredom.

That said, let's also look at a generic person (not necessarily you) looking to add to their Bujinkan training. From what I understand, many Bujinkan places don't do much working against a resisting opponent, so anything that gives you some of that will be a great compliment. If it were me, I'd be looking for significant striking (kickboxing, as you said, will give you that) and something to expand the utility of the grappling (some BJJ, Judo, catch wrestling, etc.) by working with folks who are actually trying to stop you.

I think people over analyse this sort of thing, there are people who collect ma like some collect stamps and there's nothing wrong with that. but I also think there's an element of the " mental illness,, that effects body builders who when they are clearly bigger and stronger as a result of there efforts, feel smaller and weaker, so have to train harder and harder or use peds. but in the ma example they feel more more vulnerable and so must learn other arts to make up for the perceived short fall of the one( a) they have learnt.

I mean really if you not intending to go in to open competition and your not in a job with a high risk of being attacked or make a pint of going to dodgy bars/ places, then your only training for the fairly unlikely situation that you be attacked, in which case any ma that your proficient at is as good as any other, the defining issues being if it has some sort of full resistant training and your physical fitness and not if it's a striking or a grappling. art

 

[Flying Crane]

I think this is likely with any pair of arts (Shorin-ryu Karate students who train with me have to learn a new version of zenkutsu dachi, which drives them a bit nuts). I wouldn't choose a second art based on whether it uses new stances or not - the stances are just support for the movement style and bases for the technique.

If someone is choosing another system to study then they should choose it based on their personal interests.

However, I will say that different systems operate on a foundation (including stances) of power generation and application that could be different enough from each other that they contradict. If so, training the two systems simultaneously can be frustrating and can undermine each other.

It is important that people be aware of this possibility.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Hey everyone. First I just wanna say hi, newbie to the forum here!

I have a question for you all. I've spent the last ten years or so doing Bujinkan Ninjutsu and have gotten my second dan and although I absolutely love the art, the only school near me recently shut down due to the teachers health.

So I decided now might be a good time to choose a second martial art to compliment what I already know and I was thinking perhaps Kickboxing. Ninjutsu is not the most strike-heavy style and I figured it might be good to gain more strength in this area.

So would Kickboxing be a good choice?

I had about the same level of experience as you in the Bujinkan when I drifted away and started trying other martial arts, so hopefully I can offer some relevant insights.

Kickboxing could be useful in that it would offer a completely different experience and perspective on martial arts than what you're used to. Getting the two arts to mesh together … you're unlikely to have much success with that any time in the short term. The postures, power generation, body dynamics, and tactical mindset are completely different. If you start a kickboxing class trying to apply what you've learned from Bujinkan taijutsu, you're just going to be slowing down your progress in your new art. If you go that direction, best to come in with a completely blank slate and not even think about your prior training.

If you want an art where you might get more immediate benefit from your prior training, then I might recommend Judo, BJJ, or some FMA such as Kali or Escrima. You'll still need to keep an open mind regarding the differences in the arts, but your Bujinkan experience could give you a leg up compared to someone with no previous training. It would also be much easier to find a way to mesh the arts together into something functional.

Ultimately, though, I would echo the advice of other posters. Visit the schools which are actually available to you, talk to the instructors, watch classes, jump in to a trial class if one is offered, and make your decision based on how good a fit the individual school and instructor seem to be.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think people over analyse this sort of thing, there are people who collect ma like some collect stamps and there's nothing wrong with that. but I also think there's an element of the " mental illness,, that effects body builders who when they are clearly bigger and stronger as a result of there efforts, feel smaller and weaker, so have to train harder and harder or use peds. but in the ma example they feel more more vulnerable and so must learn other arts to make up for the perceived short fall of the one( a) they have learnt.

I mean really if you not intending to go in to open competition and your not in a job with a high risk of being attacked or make a pint of going to dodgy bars/ places, then your only training for the fairly unlikely situation that you be attacked, in which case any ma that your proficient at is as good as any other, the defining issues being if it has some sort of full resistant training and your physical fitness and not if it's a striking or a grappling. art

There's that. I think some folks just enjoy the putting together of the pieces - figuring out what would improve on what they already know, just because they can.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If someone is choosing another system to study then they should choose it based on their personal interests.

However, I will say that different systems operate on a foundation (including stances) of power generation and application that could be different enough from each other that they contradict. If so, training the two systems simultaneously can be frustrating and can undermine each other.

It is important that people be aware of this possibility.

I haven't personally run into any that felt conflicting to me, thought that could be just a limitation of what I've run into, or even a limitation of my own understanding.

 

[jobo]

There's that. I think some folks just enjoy the putting together of the pieces - figuring out what would improve on what they already know, just because they can.

yes I know the way some. people mess about with perfectly functional engines, and there's nothing wrong with that at all

 

[Dave the Boulder]

Thanks everyone for all the advice and for making me feel so welcome!

I've had a lot to think about and I've done a bit of research and stuff, thought about what I want from a new martial art to study (something to fill in the gaps in what I know and general fitness... need to drop a few pounds!)

Also lots of conversation with my better half (we met at the Bujinkan 5 years ago!) as she wants to go too for the fitness side primarily.

We have decided to look into some Kickboxing classes and have found a few promising looking classes that we are going to check out when we get back from our honeymoon (we get married next month!)

Again, thanks for all the responses. You've been a great help!

 

[JR 137]

I think people over analyse this sort of thing, there are people who collect ma like some collect stamps and there's nothing wrong with that. but I also think there's an element of the " mental illness,, that effects body builders who when they are clearly bigger and stronger as a result of there efforts, feel smaller and weaker, so have to train harder and harder or use peds. but in the ma example they feel more more vulnerable and so must learn other arts to make up for the perceived short fall of the one( a) they have learnt.

I mean really if you not intending to go in to open competition and your not in a job with a high risk of being attacked or make a pint of going to dodgy bars/ places, then your only training for the fairly unlikely situation that you be attacked, in which case any ma that your proficient at is as good as any other, the defining issues being if it has some sort of full resistant training and your physical fitness and not if it's a striking or a grappling. art

Agree 100%. I think once you reach a certain level of proficiency in a given art/style, it’s more about defending against people in your own art rather than the general public. And by that I mean it comes down to getting better at “dojo fighting” rather than getting better at “street fighting.” Sure, a better dojo fighter hypothetically is a better street fighter, but the typical street fighter attacking you isn’t going for a 180 hook kick, rear naked choke, et al. And most sparring and drills in the dojo aren’t reflecting the typical haymakers, charging full speed at you from across the room punch, football tackle, etc. They’ve settled into a style of fighting and things become homogenized to the point where it starts to lose that rawness that actual fighting truly is. In an actual fight there’s no pacing yourself, moving around and trying certain things out, disengaging then re-engaging, etc. It’s all out chaos and finish it as quickly as possible. There’s no thinking and experimenting.

The overwhelming majority of people will never use the physical skills they’ve learned. If they do, it’s a rarity. Unless restraining people is in their job description, they’re hanging out or living in tough area or if they have to go through those areas regularly, most people don’t really need this stuff. Anything that teaches sound basics and trains them with an acceptable amount of resistance will most likely be sufficient and more than they’ll ever really need.

And furthermore, actual fighting requires a certain mindset. I’ve been around some great dojo fighters that I wouldn’t want backing me up when the sh!t hits the fan, and I’ve been around mediocre dojo fighters who I’d never f with. But it all fairness, the heavier and more consistent hard contact places tend to have far less of the mentally weaker people. They tend to weed themselves out. People who don’t want to take a solid hit and keep going every now and again don’t last too long in places like Muay Thai, kickboxing, Kyokushin, boxing, etc. Same for the hard grappling places like BJJ, Judo, wrestling. A guy who doesn’t mind taking a few shots so he can dish a few out himself will do far better in a fight than the dojo warrior who panics once he gets hit a little harder than he’s used to. I’ve seen that one a few too many times.

 

[Flying Crane]

I haven't personally run into any that felt conflicting to me, thought that could be just a limitation of what I've run into, or even a limitation of my own understanding.

I have, it was an interesting experience. I realized I needed to make a choice, it wasn’t fruitful to train them together.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thanks everyone for all the advice and for making me feel so welcome!

I've had a lot to think about and I've done a bit of research and stuff, thought about what I want from a new martial art to study (something to fill in the gaps in what I know and general fitness... need to drop a few pounds!)

Also lots of conversation with my better half (we met at the Bujinkan 5 years ago!) as she wants to go too for the fitness side primarily.

We have decided to look into some Kickboxing classes and have found a few promising looking classes that we are going to check out when we get back from our honeymoon (we get married next month!)

Again, thanks for all the responses. You've been a great help!

Above all, have fun with it, man!

 

[JR 137]

Above all, have fun with it, man!

That’s really what it all boils down to. Unless you’re in a job or living somewhere where you’ve got to constantly defend yourself, the style isn’t the most important thing. What’s most important is if you enjoy the type of training and click with the teacher(s) and classmates.

 

[pdg]

I've also used that answer with students...after having explained that some things aren't right or wrong, but are simply done a certain way at a specific point to work on something particular. And sometimes it's just preference. My preference, because I'm the teacher and get to make up the rules. Students understand "because I said so" is my way of saying it doesn't really matter, functionally - just do it this way so I can see you can do it this way, and feel free to explore other ways, too.

But to an outsider who only heard you state "because I said so"?

I'm not an instructor, but I help out when asked - and I've used the same type of response too. Thinking about it now I would probably come across the same way to an outsider...

When you've got 15+ people in a class and you're working on a certain block/move and a yellow belt asks "but what if they kick instead of punch?" or "but what if I do xyz instead?" it's not worth taking the whole class off track down a rabbit hole and that sort of thing gets said


Of course, I imagine it's actually pretty common that some instructors really mean it though - like "the book says / I say it's this, so that's all it is"...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But to an outsider who only heard you state "because I said so"?

Yeah, that was my intended point. To an outsider, it could sound dismissive even when the student understand it's pretty much the opposite.

I'm not an instructor, but I help out when asked - and I've used the same type of response too. Thinking about it now I would probably come across the same way to an outsider...

When you've got 15+ people in a class and you're working on a certain block/move and a yellow belt asks "but what if they kick instead of punch?" or "but what if I do xyz instead?" it's not worth taking the whole class off track down a rabbit hole and that sort of thing gets said


Of course, I imagine it's actually pretty common that some instructors really mean it though - like "the book says / I say it's this, so that's all it is"...

Agreed. I've had instructors who meant it that way. They had decided what was "right", and didn't even appreciate the question being asked.