Modernization of Ninjutsu

Steve

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It's been growing rapidly in the mainland U.S. over the last few years as well. (Hawaii has long had a strong Sumo tradition.) It's still pretty niche compared to most other combat sports but we're making progress.
Nothing near me, unfortunately. I'm game to give it a shot.
 

LeftHandFree

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Right now it's more local clubs than dedicated schools in most places.
Honestly that would be enough for me. Its not like Im looking to compete in sumo tournaments.

And regardless, Sumo aside there are lots of other options for people looking to branch out and pressure test these days.
 

drop bear

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Honestly that would be enough for me. Its not like Im looking to compete in sumo tournaments.

And regardless, Sumo aside there are lots of other options for people looking to branch out and pressure test these days.

Yeah but if we are talking about having some sort of link to traditional Japanese martial arts, samurai and all that goes with it. Sumo would probably be closer to the real thing than ninjitsu.
 

LeftHandFree

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Yeah but if we are talking about having some sort of link to traditional Japanese martial arts, samurai and all that goes with it. Sumo would probably be closer to the real thing than ninjitsu.
Yes, you are absolutely right. But I wasn't trying to address the whole samurai/ninja thing, which may not have come across so apologies on that.

My main point was more along the lines of, if you want to modernize ninjutsu or (x-kan training) as the OP suggested, it's not so much trying to turn it into MMA (in which case just do MMA) but finding ways to work the techniques you've learned in an environment that allows for proper resistance. And far from being a new thought even for classical budo, it was done with Daito Ryu and Sumo long ago. There's also plenty of evidence various jujutsu schools had some type of randori. It's not that Kano invented it as a concept, just took it to another level as a training tool (in Japan, at the time I should add).
 

drop bear

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Yes, you are absolutely right. But I wasn't trying to address the whole samurai/ninja thing, which may not have come across so apologies on that.

My main point was more along the lines of, if you want to modernize ninjutsu or (x-kan training) as the OP suggested, it's not so much trying to turn it into MMA (in which case just do MMA) but finding ways to work the techniques you've learned in an environment that allows for proper resistance. And far from being a new thought even for classical budo, it was done with Daito Ryu and Sumo long ago. There's also plenty of evidence various jujutsu schools had some type of randori. It's not that Kano invented it as a concept, just took it to another level as a training tool (in Japan, at the time I should add).

You could also do in house sumo. Keeping the style and live training within the same sort of theme.
 

LeftHandFree

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You could also do in house sumo. Keeping the style and live training within the same sort of theme.
True.

Id personally be a bit wary of any kind of in house training of an art that I hadnt already had fairly comprehensive formal training in under a qualified instructor.

But I live in an area inundated with judo and bjj so I can be a bit more picky in that regard. If that werent the case then yeah, train however you can.
 

Tony Dismukes

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The topic somewhat reminds me of a video I saw recently about early Daito Ryu practitioners testing their skills by competing in Sumo matches.
BTW, Sumo is actually a pretty cool development/testing environment for aiki based arts because the ruleset incentivizes super-committed full body attacks. It's harder to get that aiki-style blending with the attack from a boxer or a judoka because they will typically stay more moderated. In Sumo, there are rewards for coming in 100% which also creates opportunities for someone who can time a counter successfully.
 

LeftHandFree

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BTW, Sumo is actually a pretty cool development/testing environment for aiki based arts because the ruleset incentivizes super-committed full body attacks. It's harder to get that aiki-style blending with the attack from a boxer or a judoka because they will typically stay more moderated. In Sumo, there are rewards for coming in 100% which also creates opportunities for someone who can time a counter successfully.
Thats a good point. I think that aspect of sumo is in some ways closer to a brawl than any kind of sparring.

It also does show someone how difficult it is to time some of those techniques against a fully committed opponent
 

Tony Dismukes

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Thats a good point. I think that aspect of sumo is in some ways closer to a brawl than any kind of sparring.

It also does show someone how difficult it is to time some of those techniques against a fully committed opponent
Yep. One of the challenges in Sumo is that you only have a split second to stop or redirect your opponent before he puts you out of the ring. After that it doesn't matter if you manage to reverse your opponent, you've already lost.
 

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Yep. One of the challenges in Sumo is that you only have a split second to stop or redirect your opponent before he puts you out of the ring. After that it doesn't matter if you manage to reverse your opponent, you've already lost.

Its kind of like Judo ne waza to me through the lens of bjj. Having such a short time on the ground I think forces you to be really quick with the submissions. No dilly dallying.

I did actually get to try a bit of sumo at a festival in Little Tokyo years ago. It was super fun and the actual sumo wrestlers dialed it back a bit for us newbies so we could get the hang of it without being overwhelmed.

I did okay thanks to a judo background though, interestingly, I did mostly stay in much deeper stances closer to what you find in classical jujutsu schools.

If there was a regular dojo by me Id try to go like two or three times a month.
 
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